大般涅槃經

Volume 35

CHAPTER TWENTY-FIVE: KAUNDINYA

Part I:

At that time, the Blessed One said to Kaundinya:

“Form is impermanent. Through extinguishing this form, one realizes the permanently abiding liberation of form. Feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness are likewise impermanent.

Through extinguishing... this consciousness, one realizes... the permanently abiding liberation of consciousness. Kaundinya! Form is suffering.

Through extinguishing this form, one realizes the blissful liberation of form. Feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness are likewise. Kaundinya!

Form is emptiness. Through extinguishing empty form, one realizes the liberation of form that is not empty. Feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness are likewise.

Kaundinya! Form is non-self. Through extinguishing this form, one realizes the liberation of form that is the true Self.

Feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness are likewise. Kaundinya! Form is impure.

Through extinguishing this form, one realizes the pure liberation of form. Feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness are likewise. Kaundinya!

Form bears the marks of birth, aging, sickness, and death. Through extinguishing this form, one realizes the liberation of form that does not bear the marks of birth, aging, sickness, and death. Feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness are likewise.

Kaundinya! Form is a cause of ignorance. Through extinguishing this form, one realizes the liberation of form that is not a cause of ignorance.

Feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness are likewise. Kaundinya! Even so, form is a cause of birth.

Through extinguishing this form, one realizes the liberation of form that is not a cause of birth. Feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness are likewise. Kaundinya!

Form is a cause of the four inversions. Through extinguishing inverted form, one realizes the liberation of form that is not a cause of the four inversions. Feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness are likewise.

Kaundinya! Form is the cause of immeasurable unwholesome dharmas, such as male and female bodies, craving for food, sensual craving, greed, anger, delusion, jealousy, a miserly mind, a malicious mind, nutriment by morsels, nutriment by consciousness, nutriment by volition, nutriment by contact, birth from eggs, birth from wombs, birth from moisture, spontaneous birth, the five sensual desires, the five hindrances, and so forth.

All such dharmas arise due to form. Therefore, through extinguishing this form, one realizes the liberation of form in which none of these immeasurable evils exist. Feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness are likewise.

Kaundinya! Form is bondage. Through extinguishing the bondage of form, one realizes the liberation of form that is without bondage.

Feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness are likewise. Kaundinya! Form is a current.

Through extinguishing the current of form, one realizes the liberation of form that is not a current. Feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness are likewise. Kaundinya!

Form is not a refuge. Through extinguishing this form, one realizes the liberation of form that is a refuge. Feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness are likewise.

Kaundinya! Form is a sore. Through extinguishing this form, one realizes the liberation of form that is without sores.

Feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness are likewise. Kaundinya! Form is not quiescent.

Through extinguishing this form, one realizes the quiescent nirvana of form. Feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness are likewise. Kaundinya!

If a person is able to know in this way, that person is called a sramana and a brahmin, one who fully possesses the Dharma of a sramana and a brahmin. Kaundinya! Apart from the Buddha-Dharma, there are no sramanas or brahmins, nor is there the Dharma of sramanas or brahmins.

All adherents of non-Buddhist paths who falsely and deceitfully claim these titles practice what is unreal. Although they fashion the outward appearance and say that these two kinds exist, in truth this is not so. Why is this?

If there were no Dharma of sramanas and brahmins, how could one say that sramanas and brahmins exist? In this great assembly I constantly utter the lion’s roar! You too should utter the lion’s roar in the great assembly.”

At that time, immeasurable numbers of adherents of non-Buddhist paths heard these words, and anger and malice arose in their hearts. They said: “Gautama now declares that within our communities there are neither sramanas nor brahmins, nor the Dharma of sramanas or brahmins. What should we do to devise extensive means of telling Gautama that within our communities there are also sramanas and the Dharma of sramanas, brahmins and the Dharma of brahmins?”

Among that assembly, one brahmin ascetic proclaimed: “Venerable sirs! Gautama’s words are no different from the ravings of a madman! How can this be verified?

A madman in the world may sing or dance, weep or laugh, revile or praise, being utterly unable to distinguish between relatives and enemies. The sramana Gautama is likewise. At times he says that he was born into the household of King Suddhodana, and at other times that he was not born.

At times he says that after birth he walked seven steps, and at other times that he did not walk. At times he says that from childhood he studied worldly affairs, and at other times that he is the Omniscient One. At times he dwelt in the palace, enjoying pleasures and begetting a son, and at other times, weary of the suffering and afflictions therein, he denounced them as evil and base.

At times he devoted himself to ascetic practices for six years, and at other times he denounced the ascetic practices of the non-Buddhist paths. At times he says that he received previously unheard teachings from Udraka Ramaputra, Arada, and others, and at other times he says that those men possessed no understanding. At times he says that beneath the Bodhi tree he attained unsurpassed, perfect enlightenment, and at other times he says that he did not go to that tree where nothing was gained.

At times he says that this very body of his today is nirvana, and at other times he says that only when the body is extinguished is there nirvana. Gautama’s words are no different from the ravings of a madman, so why are you troubled and distressed by them?”

The brahmins immediately replied: “Great sir! How could we not be distressed today? After the sramana Gautama first renounced the household life, he taught impermanence, suffering, emptiness, non-self, and impurity. Even my disciples, upon hearing these things, became frightened. How then could sentient beings, who are impermanent, suffering, empty, without self, and impure, fail to accept his words? Today Gautama has again come to this sala grove and teaches the great assembly that there is the Dharma of Permanence, Bliss, Self, and Purity. After hearing these words, all my disciples have abandoned me and gone to accept Gautama’s teachings. Because of these causes and conditions, great sorrow and anguish have arisen in me.”

Then another brahmin said: “Venerable sirs! Listen carefully! Listen carefully!

The sramana Gautama is said to cultivate loving-kindness and compassion, but this assertion is false and untrue! If he possessed loving-kindness and compassion, how could he teach my disciples and the others to accept his Dharma? The fruit of loving-kindness and compassion is to accord with the wishes of others, yet he now opposes my wishes.

How, then, can it be said that he possesses them? If anyone says that the sramana Gautama is unstained by the eight worldly dharmas, that too is false. If Gautama is said to have few desires and to know contentment, why does he now seize our gains?

If it is said that his lineage is of the highest nobility, that too is false. Why? From ancient times until now, it has never been seen or heard that a great lion king would harm a tiny mouse.

Even if Gautama were of superior lineage, why would he now trouble us? If it is said that Gautama possesses great power, that too is false. Why?

From ancient times until now, it has likewise never been seen or heard that the garuda king would contend with a crow. If his power is great, why does he engage in conflict with us? If it is said that Gautama possesses the knowledge of others’ minds, that too is false.

Why? If he possessed this knowledge, for what reason would he not know our minds? Venerable sirs!

Long ago I heard this from an aged and wise man: after one hundred years, a demonic illusionist would appear, namely Gautama. This beguiling demon and illusionist is now in this sala grove and will soon perish. Venerable sirs, you should not grieve today!”

At that time, another Nirgrantha replied: “Venerable sir! I am grieved today not because of the offerings made by my own disciples, but only because the world is dark and without eyes. People cannot discern a field of merit from what is not a field of merit.

They abandon aged and wise brahmins and make offerings to a youth; it is for this reason that I grieve! The sramana Gautama is proficient in spells. Through the power of such spells, he can make one body become immeasurable bodies and then cause those immeasurable bodies to become one body again; or he can transform his own body into the forms of men, women, cattle, goats, elephants, horses, and so forth.

My power can destroy spells of this kind. Once the spells of the sramana Gautama have been destroyed, we shall once again receive many offerings and enjoy peace and happiness!”

At that time, another brahmin spoke, saying: “Venerable sirs! The sramana Gautama has fully perfected immeasurable virtues. Therefore, we should not contend with him!”

The assembly replied: “Foolish man! Why do you say that the sramana Gautama is endowed with great virtues? His mother died only seven days after his birth. Can this be called a sign of merit and virtue?”

The brahmin replied: “When reviled, he does not become angry; when struck, he does not strike back. You should know that such a person possesses signs of great merit and virtue. His body is complete with the thirty-two excellent marks, the eighty minor characteristics, and immeasurable spiritual powers. Therefore, you should know that these are signs of merit and virtue. His heart is free from arrogance; he is the first to offer greetings; his words are gentle and never coarse or harsh; his heart is not violent. Though his kingdom possessed abundant wealth, he felt no attachment to it. He cast everything aside and renounced the household life as one would spit out saliva. Therefore, I say that the sramana Gautama has fully perfected immeasurable virtues!”

The assembly replied: “Excellent, venerable sir! The sramana Gautama is indeed just as you say, having perfected immeasurable spiritual powers and transformations. We cannot compete with him in these matters! The sramana Gautama is gentle by nature and cannot endure ascetic practices. He was raised deep within the palace and has no grasp of affairs outside it. He is capable only of speaking gentle, pleasing words, but he knows nothing of crafts, scriptures, debate, and so forth. Let us invite him to join us in debate and thoroughly discuss the essentials of the true Dharma! If he defeats me, I shall become his attendant. If I defeat him, he shall become my attendant!” (Attendant: one who provides for every need.)

At that time, immeasurably many adherents of non-Buddhist paths gathered together and went to Ajatashatru, king of the land of Magadha. Seeing them, the king immediately asked, “Gentlemen! Each of you cultivates a sacred path.

You are renunciants who have relinquished possessions and household affairs, and the people of my land all make offerings to you, reverently looking up to you. You have no dealings with one another, so why have you now assembled together and come here? Gentlemen!

You each uphold different teachings and different precepts, and your ways of renunciation are not the same. Each of you also follows his own precepts and teachings, renouncing the household life to cultivate the path. For what reason, then, have you today become united in mind and assembled together, like fallen leaves swept by the wind into one place?

Tell me why you have come here! I have always protected renunciants, even without begrudging my own body and life!”

Thereupon, the entire assembly of adherents of non-Buddhist paths said, “Great King! Please listen attentively! Great King, today you are the bridge of the Great Dharma, the whetstone of the Great Dharma, and the balance of the Great Dharma.

You are indeed a vessel for all merit, the true nature of all merit, the course of the true Dharma, a fertile field for seeds, the foundation of every nation, the bright mirror of every nation, the image of all devas, and the father and mother of all the people in the land. Great King! The treasury of merit of the entire world is none other than the king’s own person.

Why is this? You are called a treasury of merit because, when deciding the affairs of state, you make no distinction between foe and friend. Your mind is impartial, like earth, water, fire, and wind.

Therefore, the king is called a treasury of merit.

“Great King! Although the lives of beings at present are brief, the king’s merit is like that of the long-lived kings of the peaceful ages of the past. You are also like King Mandhatr, King Sudarshana, King Kshantivadin, King Nahusha, King Nanadi, King Shibi, King Ikshvaku, and others. Such kings were fully endowed with wholesome qualities. The Great King today is likewise.

“Great King! Because of the king, the land is peaceful and joyful and its people are numerous; therefore, renunciants admire and delight in this country, uphold the precepts, diligently cultivate, and practice the Right Path. Great King! Our scriptures say that if renunciants in the country where they reside uphold the precepts, diligently advance, and assiduously cultivate the Right Path, the king of that country also shares in the cultivation of goodness.

“Great King! You have brought all bandits and thieves under control, so renunciants have nothing to fear. There is only one exceedingly evil man—the shramana Gautama!

The king has not yet investigated him, and we are greatly afraid! That man relies upon his noble lineage and the perfection of his physical appearance. Moreover, because of the karmic reward of generosity practiced in past lives, he receives abundant offerings.

Relying upon these things, he has become exceedingly arrogant; perhaps he has also become arrogant because of his skill in spells. For these reasons, he is unable to practice austerities and instead accepts and stores fine objects, clothing, bedding, and other requisites. Therefore, all the evil people of the world, seeking gain and sustenance, gather around him and become his retinue, unable to practice austerities.

“Through the power of spells, he subdued Kashyapa. Shariputra, Maudgalyayana, and others were subdued as well. Today he has again come to our dwelling place in the sala grove and proclaimed that this body is permanence, bliss, self, and purity, thereby enticing our disciples. Great King! When Gautama formerly taught impermanence, the absence of bliss, impurity, and non-self, we could endure it. But now that he proclaims permanence, bliss, self, and purity, we truly cannot endure it! We beseech the Great King to permit us to debate with that Gautama!”

The king immediately replied, “Great sages! Who has instructed and led you today, causing your minds to become deranged and unsettled like turbulent waves upon water, a wheel of swirling fire, or apes flinging themselves among the trees? This is shameful. When the wise hear this, they will immediately feel compassion; when fools hear it, they will ridicule you. The words you speak do not befit renunciants. If you suffer from ailments of wind, bile, or water, I have medicines capable of curing you. But if you are afflicted by demons, my elder brother Jivaka is skilled and can cure you!

“Today you wish to wear away Mount Sumeru with your fingernails and shatter vajra with your teeth. Great sages, you are like fools who, seeing a hungry lion king asleep, wish to awaken it; like people who place their fingers in the mouth of a venomous snake; or like those who wish to reach into ashes concealing fire! You today are just the same!

“Good men! You are like a wild fox making a lion’s roar, like a mosquito competing in speed with a garuda, or like a rabbit crossing the ocean and wishing to reach its very bottom! You today are just the same. Even if you dreamed that you had defeated Gautama, such a deluded dream would still not be worthy of belief! Great sages! The thought you have aroused today is like that of moths flying headlong into a great fire! Heed my words and speak no more! Although you praise me as being impartial like a balance, do not let outsiders hear these words!”

The adherents of non-Buddhist paths then said, “Great King! Has the shramana Gautama already cast an illusion upon you, causing your mind to doubt and disbelieve these holy men? Great King! You should not disparage these great sages in this way! Great King! The waxing and waning of the moon, the salty taste of the great ocean, Mount Malaya—who brought such things into being? Was it not we Brahmins?!

“Great King! Have you not heard how the seer Agastya held back the waters of the Ganges in his ear for twelve years? Great King!

Have you not heard how the seer Gautama manifested great spiritual powers, transformed himself into the body of Shakra for twelve years, and at the same time caused Shakra’s body to assume the form of a ram and produced a thousand female organs upon Shakra’s body? Great King! Have you not heard how the seer Jimi drank dry the waters of the four seas in a single day, causing the great earth to become parched?

Great King! Have you not heard how the seer Vasu made three eyes for Ishvara? Great King!

Have you not heard how the seer Rara transformed Kapila into a region of salty soil? Great King! Among the Brahmins are such seers of immense power and others like them, whose deeds can still be verified.

Great King! How can you regard us with contempt?”

The king said, “Gentlemen! If you do not believe this and wish to act, the Tathagata, the Perfectly Awakened One, is now nearby in the sala grove. You may go there and challenge him as you please. The Tathagata will also explain matters and answer you according to your wishes.”

At that time, King Ajatashatru, together with the adherents of non-Buddhist paths, their followers, and their retinues, went to where the Buddha was. They bowed with their heads and faces at his feet, circumambulated him three times to the right, and, having completed their reverential observances, withdrew and stood to one side. They addressed the Buddha, saying:

“World-Honored One! These adherents of non-Buddhist paths wish to pose challenges as they please! We beseech the Tathagata to answer them as he sees fit!”

The Buddha said:

“Great King! Say no more. I myself know the proper time!”

Thereupon, among the assembly was a Brahmin named Jatishuna, who said:

“Gautama! Do you teach that nirvana is a permanent Dharma?”

– Indeed! Indeed, O Great Brahmin.

The Brahmin said:

– O Gautama! If it is said that nirvana is permanent, that meaning is incorrect! Why is this? Because worldly phenomena arise as effects from causes, continuing without interruption, just as a jar is made from clay and clothing is made from silk. Gautama, you often say that by cultivating the perception of impermanence one realizes nirvana. How, then, can an effect arising from an impermanent cause be said to be permanent? Gautama, you also say that liberation from sensual craving is nirvana, liberation from craving for form and craving for the formless is nirvana, and the extinction of ignorance and all other afflictions is nirvana. From sensual craving through the affliction of ignorance, all are impermanent. If the nirvana attained through those impermanent things were likewise impermanent, then nirvana itself should also be impermanent! Gautama, you also say that through causes one is born in heaven, through causes one falls into hell, and through causes one attains liberation. Therefore, all phenomena arise from causes. If liberation is attained through causes, how can it be said to be permanent? Gautama, you also say that because form arises from conditions, it is called impermanent. Feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness are likewise so. Thus, if liberation were form, it should be known to be impermanent. The same would be true if it were feeling, perception, formations, or consciousness. If liberation exists apart from the five skandhas, then it should be known to be empty space. If it is empty space, it cannot be said to arise from causes and conditions. Why? Because empty space is permanent, one, and all-pervasive. Gautama, you also say that whatever arises from causes is suffering. If it is suffering, how can liberation be said to be bliss? Gautama, you also say that impermanence is suffering, and suffering is non-self. If something is impermanent, suffering, and non-self, it is impure. If all phenomena arising from causes are impermanent, suffering, non-self, and impure, how can you say that nirvana is permanence, bliss, self, and purity? If Gautama says that it is both permanent and impermanent, both suffering and non-self, and both pure and impure, would these not be contradictory words? I once heard the wise elders of former times say: If a Buddha appears in the world, his words are never contradictory. Today Gautama speaks contradictory words and furthermore says that the Buddha is his own person. What is the meaning of this?

The Buddha said:

– Brahmin! Regarding what you have said, I shall now question you, and you may answer according to your own understanding.

The Brahmin said:

– Excellent, O Gautama!

The Buddha said:

– Brahmin! Is your primal nature permanent or impermanent?

The Brahmin replied:

– My primal nature is permanent.

– Brahmin! Can that primal nature produce all internal and external phenomena as their cause?

– Indeed, O Gautama!

The Buddha said:

– Brahmin! What is meant by its being a producing cause?

– O Gautama! From primal nature arises the great principle; from the great principle arises self-conceit; and from self-conceit arise sixteen phenomena. These are earth, water, fire, wind, space; the five cognitive faculties—eye, ear, nose, tongue, and body; the five faculties of action—hands, feet, mouth, speech, the two faculties of male and female, and the faculty of the equanimous mind. From these sixteen phenomena arise five phenomena: form, sound, scent, taste, and touch. These twenty-one phenomena have three roots: the first is defilement, the second is coarseness, and the third is darkness. Defilement is called craving, coarseness is called anger, and darkness is called ignorance. O Gautama! These twenty-four phenomena all arise from primal nature as their cause!

– Brahmin! Are these phenomena, such as the great principle and the rest, permanent or impermanent?

– O Gautama! The primal nature in my doctrine is permanent, while the great principle and all the other phenomena are impermanent!

– Brahmin! In your doctrine, the cause is permanent while the effect is impermanent. What fault, then, is there if in my doctrine the cause is impermanent while the effect is permanent? Brahmin! Are there two kinds of cause in your doctrine?

He replied:

– There are!

The Buddha asked:

– What are the two?

The Brahmin replied:

– The first is a generative cause, and the second is a revealing cause!

The Buddha asked:

– What is a generative cause? What is a revealing cause?

The Brahmin replied:

– A generative cause is like clay from which a jar is made. A revealing cause is like a lamp that illuminates an object!

The Buddha said:

– These two kinds of cause are one in respect to their nature as causes. If they are one, can the generative cause perform the function of the revealing cause, and can the revealing cause perform the function of the generative cause?

– No, O Gautama!

The Buddha said:

– If the generative cause does not perform the function of the revealing cause, and the revealing cause does not perform the function of the generative cause, can they still be said to possess the characteristic of a cause?

The Brahmin said:

– Although they do not perform one another’s functions, they still possess the characteristic of a cause!

– Brahmin! Is that which is revealed by the revealing cause identical with the revealing cause itself?

– It is not identical, O Gautama!

The Buddha said:

– Although in my Dharma nirvana is realized through what is impermanent, nirvana itself is not impermanent. Brahmin! Because nirvana is attained through a revealing cause, it is permanence, bliss, self, and purity. That which is attained through a generative cause is impermanent, without bliss, without self, and without purity. Thus, the Tathagata’s words are two. Though they are twofold words, they contain no duality. Therefore, the Tathagata is called One Whose Speech Is Nondual. As you said, having heard from the wise elders of former times that when a Buddha appears in the world his words are never contradictory, that statement is excellent! The words of all Buddhas throughout the three times and the ten directions never differ. Therefore, it is said that the Buddha’s words are nondual! What does it mean that they never differ? When something exists, they all say that it exists; when something does not exist, they all say that it does not exist. Thus, their meaning is said to be one. Brahmin! Although the Tathagata, the World-Honored One, speaks what are called two statements, they are understood as one statement. How are two statements understood as one? The eye and visible form are two statements, while the consciousness that arises is one statement... and so forth, down to the mind and mental objects, which are likewise so!

The Brahmin said:

– O Gautama! You are well able to distinguish the meaning of words in this way, but I still do not understand how two statements are uttered yet understood as one statement!

The World-Honored One then expounded to him the four Noble Truths:

– Brahmin! The Truth of Suffering is both two and one... and so forth, down to the Truth of the Path, which is also both two and one.

The Brahmin said:

– World-Honored One! I now understand!

The Buddha said:

– Good man! How do you understand?

The Brahmin said:

– World-Honored One! With regard to the Truth of Suffering, all ordinary beings see two, while noble ones see one... and so forth, down to the Truth of the Path, which is likewise so!

The Buddha said:

– Excellent! You have understood!

The Brahmin said:

– World-Honored One! Having now heard the Dharma, I have attained Right View. Today I shall take refuge in the precious Buddha, the precious Dharma, and the precious Sangha. I beseech the Great Compassionate One to permit me to enter the monastic life!

The World-Honored One then told Kaundinya:

– You should shave the beard and hair of this Jatishuna and allow him to enter the monastic life.

Kaundinya immediately accepted the Buddha’s instruction and shaved his hair. As Kaundinya applied the razor, two things fell away together: the first was his beard and hair, and the second was his afflictions. At that very moment, while still seated there, Jatishuna attained the fruit of arhatship.

There was also a brahmin ascetic of the Vasishtha clan, who said:

– O Gautama! Do you say that nirvana is permanent?

– Indeed, O brahmin ascetic!

Vasishtha said:

– O Gautama! Do you not say that the absence of afflictions is nirvana?

– Indeed, O brahmin ascetic!

Vasishtha said:

“Venerable Gautama! In the world, there are four kinds of what is called emptiness. First, when a dharma has not yet arisen, it is called empty, just as before clay has been fashioned into a jar, it is said that there is no jar.

Second, when a dharma has ceased, it is called empty, just as after a jar has broken, it is said that there is no jar. Third, when different things are mutually absent from one another, this is called emptiness, just as there is no horse in an ox and no ox in a horse. Fourth, because something is ultimately nonexistent, it is called empty, like the hair of a tortoise or the horns of a hare.

Venerable Gautama! If nirvana is so called because the afflictions have been eliminated, then nirvana is emptiness. If it is empty, how can it be said to possess permanence, bliss, Self, and purity?”

The Buddha said:

“Good man! Nirvana is not previously nonexistent, as a jar is before the clay has been fashioned into one. Nor is it ‘empty through cessation,’ as a broken jar is empty. Nor is it ultimately nonexistent, like the hair of a tortoise or the horns of a hare. Nirvana corresponds to ‘the mutual absence of different things.’ Good man! As you have said, although there is no horse in an ox, one cannot therefore say that the ox is also empty. Although there is no ox in a horse, one cannot therefore say that the horse is also empty. Nirvana is likewise so: within the afflictions there is no nirvana, and within nirvana there are no afflictions. Therefore, this is called the mutual absence of different things.”

Vasishtha said:

“Venerable Gautama! If nirvana is the mutual absence of different things, then such mutual absence does not possess permanence, bliss, Self, or purity. Venerable Gautama! Why do you say that nirvana possesses permanence, bliss, Self, and purity?”

The Buddha said:

“Good man! According to what you have said, this emptiness involving different things includes three kinds of emptiness. An ox and a horse both first do not exist and later come into existence; this is called prior emptiness.

Having come into existence, they subsequently become nonexistent again; this is called emptiness through destruction. The characteristic of the mutual absence of different things is as you have described. Good man!

These three kinds of emptiness do not exist in nirvana. Therefore, nirvana possesses permanence, bliss, Self, and purity. Consider the illnesses of people in the world: first, illness caused by heat; second, illness caused by wind; and third, illness caused by cold.

These three illnesses can be treated with three medicines. A person suffering from an illness of heat can be cured with clarified butter. A person suffering from an illness of wind can be cured with oil.

A person suffering from an illness of cold can be cured with honey. These three medicines can treat these three harmful illnesses. Good man!

There is no oil within wind and no wind within oil... and so forth, up to there being no cold within honey and no honey within cold. Therefore, they can effect a cure. All sentient beings are likewise afflicted by three illnesses: first, greed; second, anger; and third, delusion.

For these three illnesses, there are three medicines: contemplation of impurity can serve as medicine for greed; contemplation of loving-kindness can serve as medicine for anger; and contemplation with wisdom of causes and conditions can serve as medicine for delusion. Good man! To eliminate greed, one undertakes contemplation of non-greed; to eliminate anger, one undertakes contemplation of non-anger; and to eliminate delusion, one undertakes contemplation of non-delusion.

Within the three illnesses there are none of the three medicines, and within the three medicines there are none of the three illnesses. Good man! Because the three medicines are absent from the three illnesses, the illnesses are impermanent, without Self, without bliss, and impure.

Because the three illnesses are absent from the three medicines, the medicines are therefore called permanent, blissful, possessing Self, and pure.”

Vasishtha said:

“World-Honored One! The Tathagata has explained permanence and impermanence to me. What is called permanent? What is called impermanent?”

The Buddha said:

“Good man! Form is impermanent; liberation from form is permanent... and so forth, up to consciousness being impermanent and liberation from consciousness being permanent. Good man! If a good man or good woman can contemplate everything from form through consciousness as truly impermanent, you should know that this person realizes the permanent Dharma.”

Vasishtha said:

“World-Honored One! I now understand the permanent and impermanent dharmas!”

The Buddha said:

“Good man! How do you understand the permanent and impermanent dharmas?”

Vasishtha said:

“World-Honored One! I now understand that my form is impermanent and that liberation is permanent... and so forth, with consciousness likewise.”

The Buddha said:

“Good man! Excellent! You have now repaid the debt owed for this body.”

The Buddha said to Kaundinya:

“This Vasishtha has realized the fruit of arhatship! Give him the Dharma requisites of the three robes and an alms bowl!”

Following the Buddha’s instruction, Kaundinya gave him the robes and alms bowl. After receiving them, Vasishtha said:

“Venerable Kaundinya! Today, through this vile and evil body, I have obtained a wholesome result. Venerable One, I implore you to condescend to go before the World-Honored One on my behalf and fully convey the remorse within my heart. I have been an evil man who offended the Tathagata and spoke deceitfully to Gautama. Please repent of this offense on my behalf. Nor can I continue to dwell for long in this poisonous body. Today, I ask to enter nirvana!”

Kaundinya then went before the Buddha and said:

“World-Honored One! The bhiksu Vasishtha has given rise to shame and remorse, saying that in his ignorance and foolishness he offended the Tathagata and spoke deceitfully to Gautama. He cannot continue to dwell for long in this poisonous body and wishes to extinguish his body today. He has entrusted me with words of repentance.”

The Buddha said:

“Kaundinya! The bhiksu Vasishtha cultivated roots of goodness in the presence of immeasurable Buddhas of the past. Today he accepted my teaching and abided in accordance with the Dharma. Because he abided in accordance with the Dharma, he realized the true fruit. You should make offerings to his body.”

At that time, after hearing this from the Buddha, Kaundinya returned to Vasishtha’s body and arranged an offering ceremony. When his body was being cremated, Vasishtha manifested many kinds of supernormal powers. After the non-Buddhist practitioners saw this, they proclaimed loudly, “This Vasishtha has acquired the magical formulas of the sramana Gautama. Before long, this man will surpass that sramana Gautama.”

At that time, among the assembly there was also a brahmin named Seni, who said:

“Venerable Gautama! Is there a Self?”

The Tathagata remained silent.

“Venerable Gautama! Is there no Self?”

The Tathagata remained silent. He asked the same question a second and a third time, but the Buddha remained silent each time. Seni said:

“Venerable Gautama! If all sentient beings possess a Self that pervades every place, then there is a single agent! Venerable Gautama! Why do you remain silent and give no answer?”

The Buddha said:

“Seni! Do you say that the Self pervades every place?”

Seni replied:

“Venerable Gautama! It is not I alone who say this; all wise people say the same.”

The Buddha said:

“Good man! If the Self pervades every place, it should undergo the consequences of rebirth in all five destinies simultaneously. If it undergoes the consequences of the five destinies simultaneously, why do you brahmins refrain from committing every evil deed in order to avoid hell and cultivate wholesome dharmas in order to receive a heavenly body?”

Seni replied:

“Venerable Gautama! In my teaching, there are two kinds of Self: first, the self of the acting body; and second, the self of the eternal body. Because of the self of the acting body, one practices abandoning evil dharmas so as not to enter hell and cultivates wholesome dharmas so as to be born in heaven.”

The Buddha said:

“Good man! You say that the Self pervades every place. If such a Self exists within the acting body, it should be understood to be impermanent. But if it does not exist within the acting body, how can it be said to pervade everywhere?”

– Venerable Gautama! The self that I posit, and the self that performs actions within the body, is also an eternal dharma. Venerable Gautama! It is like a person whose house catches fire. When the house burns, if its owner escapes, one cannot say that because the house was burned, its owner was also consumed by the flames. My doctrine is likewise. Although this acting body is impermanent, when it undergoes impermanence, the self departs from it. Therefore, my self is all-pervasive and eternal.

The Buddha said:

– Good man! Your assertion that the self is all-pervasive and eternal is incorrect. Why is this? All-pervasiveness is of two kinds: the first is permanent, and the second is impermanent. It is also of two further kinds: the first is form, and the second is formlessness. Therefore, if it is said that everything exists, then it is both permanent and impermanent, both form and formless. If you say that because the owner escapes, he is not called impermanent, this is incorrect. Why is this? The house is not called the owner, and the owner is not called the house. Because that which burns is one thing and that which escapes is another, this can be so. The self, however, is not like this. Why is this? The self is form, and form is the self; the formless is the self, and the self is the formless. How, then, can it be said that when form becomes impermanent, the self escapes? Good man! If you hold that all sentient beings share one and the same self, this contradicts both worldly and supramundane Dharma. Why is this? In the world, there are those called father, mother, son, and daughter. If the self were one, then the father would be the son and the son would be the father; the mother would be the daughter and the daughter would be the mother; the enemy would be the intimate and the intimate would be the enemy; this would be that and that would be this. Therefore, to say that all sentient beings share one self contradicts both worldly and supramundane Dharma.

Seni said:

– I do not say that all sentient beings share one self. I say that each person has an individual self.

The Buddha said:

– Good man! If you say that each person has an individual self, there would be many selves. This is incorrect. Why is this? As you previously said, the self pervades everything. If the self pervades everything, the karmic faculties of all sentient beings should be the same: when a deva sees, the Buddha should also see; when a deva acts, the Buddha should also act; when a deva hears, the Buddha should also hear. The same should be true of all dharmas. If what the deva sees is not what the Buddha sees, you should not say that the self pervades all places. If it is not all-pervasive, then it is impermanent.

Seni said:

– Venerable Gautama! The selves of all sentient beings pervade everything, but dharma and non-dharma do not pervade everything. For this reason, the Buddha performs one kind of action and the deva performs another. Therefore, Venerable Gautama, you should not say that when the Buddha sees, the deva should also see, or that when the Buddha hears, the deva should also hear!

The Buddha said:

– Good man! Are dharma and non-dharma not produced by karma?

Seni said:

– Venerable Gautama! They are indeed products of karma!

The Buddha said:

– Good man! If dharma and non-dharma are produced by karma, they are of the same nature; how, then, can you say they are different? Why is this? Wherever the Buddha's karma exists, the deva's self exists; wherever the deva's karma exists, the Buddha's self exists. Therefore, when the Buddha acts, the deva also acts. The same should be true of dharma and non-dharma. Good man! Therefore, if all sentient beings, dharma, and non-dharma were as you say, the karmic results they obtain should likewise be no different. Good man! When a fruit grows from a seed, that seed certainly does not think or discriminate: “I shall produce only the fruit of a Brahmin and shall not produce fruit for a Kshatriya, Vaishya, or Shudra.” Why is this? When fruit grows from a seed, it certainly does so without obstruction. So it is with the four castes. Dharma and non-dharma are likewise incapable of discriminating: “I shall produce a result only for the Buddha and not for the deva; I shall make a result for the deva but not for the Buddha.” Why is this? Because karma is equal.

Seni said:

– Venerable Gautama! It is like a house containing hundreds of thousands of lamps. Although their wicks differ, their light does not differ. The different wicks symbolize dharma and non-dharma. The undifferentiated light of those lamps symbolizes the selves of sentient beings.

The Buddha said:

– Good man! Your assertion that the lamps' light symbolizes the self is incorrect! Why is this? The house is one thing, and the lamps are another. The light of each lamp is present at its wick and also illuminates the entire house. According to what you say, if the self were like this, then the self should be present within both dharma and non-dharma, while dharma and non-dharma should also be present within the self. If dharma and non-dharma contain no self, you cannot say that the self pervades all places. If they both contain it, how can you use the light of a wick as an analogy? Good man! If you hold that the wick and the light are truly distinct, then for what reason does the light grow brighter when the wick increases, and the light go out when the wick is consumed? Therefore, you should not compare dharma and non-dharma to the wick and the undifferentiated light to the self. Why is this? Dharma, non-dharma, and the self—these three things are one.

Seni said:

– Venerable Gautama! Your use of the analogy of the lamp is not good. Why is this? If the analogy of the lamp were good, I would already have presented it first. If that analogy is not good, why do you use it?

– Good man! I too did not offer this analogy as a good one, for its being “not good” follows from your own assertion! This analogy also says that apart from the wick there is light, and that the wick itself possesses light. Your mind is inequitable, for you say that the lamp and its wick symbolize dharma and non-dharma, while the light symbolizes the self. Therefore, I rebuke you! The wick itself is light, yet apart from the wick there is light. Dharma itself contains the self, and the self itself contains dharma; non-dharma itself is the self, and the self itself is non-dharma. Why do you now accept the reasoning on only one side but reject the reasoning on the other? Such an analogy is not good for you. Therefore, I now take it up in return to instruct you! Good man! Such an analogy is actually no analogy at all. This non-analogy is good for me but not good for you. Good man! If you think, “It is not good for me, and it is also not good for you,” this is incorrect! Why is this? In the world, one sees a person cut himself with his own knife and do the work while another enjoys the benefit! The analogy you presented is likewise: it is good for me but not good for you.

Seni said:

– Venerable Gautama! Previously, you reproached me for having an inequitable mind, but now your own words are also inequitable. Why is this? Venerable Gautama! Today you assign what is good to yourself and what is not good to me. From this, it can be inferred that you are indeed inequitable!

The Buddha said:

– Good man! My inequality is able to destroy your inequality. Therefore, your equality is my inequality, and that is good. My inequality destroys your inequality and enables you to attain equality; this is my equality. Why is this? Because it is the equality attained together with all noble ones!

Seni said:

“Venerable Gautama! I am always equal, so why do you say that you destroy my inequality? All sentient beings equally possess a Self, so why do you say that the Self is unequal?”

“Good man! You also say that one will undergo existence in hell, as a hungry ghost, as an animal, as a human being, or as a deva. If the Self already pervades all five realms, how can you say that it will undergo existence in those realms?

You also say that after father and mother unite, a child is born. If the child already existed before, why say that it comes into being only after their union? Thus, one person would have bodies in all five realms.

If bodies already existed in these five places, for what cause and condition would karma be created for the sake of a body? Therefore, there is no equality. Good man!

If you maintain that the Self is the agent, this is incorrect. Why? If the Self were the agent, for what cause and condition would it create suffering for itself?

Yet sentient beings truly do undergo suffering. Therefore, you should know that the Self is not the agent. If you say that this suffering is not created by the Self and does not arise from causes and conditions, then all phenomena should likewise not arise from causes and conditions.

For what cause and condition, then, do you say that the Self creates? Good man! The suffering and happiness of sentient beings truly arise from causes and conditions.

Such suffering and happiness can produce sorrow and joy. When there is sorrow, there is no joy; when there is joy, there is no sorrow. Whether sorrowful or joyful, how could a wise person call this eternal?

Good man! You say that the Self is eternal. If it is eternal, why do you speak of ten distinct stages of time?

An eternal phenomenon should not have a kalala stage, and so forth, up to the stage of old age. Even the eternal phenomenon of empty space does not have a single temporal stage, much less ten! Good man!

If the Self is neither the kalala stage nor any stage up to old age, how can you say that it has ten distinct stages? Good man! If the Self is the agent, this Self must also have times of flourishing and decline, just as sentient beings have times of flourishing and decline.

If the Self is so, how can it be called eternal? Good man! If the Self is the agent, why does each person differ, some being keen-witted and others dull?

Good man! If the Self is the agent, it should be capable of creating bodily, verbal, and mental karma. If these actions are created by the Self, why does the mouth say that there is no Self?

Why does one doubt whether the Self exists or does not exist? Good man! If you maintain that seeing exists apart from the eye, this is incorrect.

Why? If there were another seeing apart from the eye, what need would there be for the eye? The same applies to the other faculties, up to and including the faculty of the body.

If you maintain that although the Self can see, it must rely upon the eye’s seeing, this too is incorrect. Why? It would be like someone saying, ‘A sumana flower can burn down an entire large village.’ How could it burn it? ‘By relying upon fire, it can burn it!’ Your conception of the Self is likewise.”

Seni said:

“Venerable Gautama! Just as a person holding a sickle can cut grass, so too the Self relies upon the five faculties to see, hear, and so forth, up to touching.”

“Good man! The person and the sickle are distinct. Therefore, by holding the sickle, the person can perform an action.

Yet apart from the faculties, there is no other Self. How, then, can you say that by relying upon a faculty, the Self can perform an action? Good man!

If you maintain that one can cut grass by holding a sickle and that the Self is likewise, does this Self have hands or not? If it has hands, why does it not grasp the sickle by itself? If it has no hands, how can you say that the Self is the agent?

Good man! That which can cut grass is precisely the sickle, not the Self and not the person. If the Self and the person could cut, why would they need to rely upon the sickle?

Good man! A person performs two actions: first, grasping the grass; second, holding the sickle. The sickle has only the function of cutting.

Sentient beings’ seeing of phenomena is likewise: the eye can see forms through the arising of a conjunction of conditions. If seeing occurs through the conjunction of causes and conditions, how could a wise person say that a Self exists? Good man!

If you maintain that the body acts and the Self experiences the result, this is incorrect. Why? The world does not see a deva perform karma while a Buddha experiences its result.

If you say that the body does not act and that the Self does not experience results through causes, why do you seek liberation through causes and conditions? If this body of yours did not previously arise from causes and conditions, then after attaining liberation, a body should also arise again without a cause. As with the body, so should it be with all afflictions.”

Seni said:

“Venerable Gautama! There are two kinds of Self: one that knows and one that does not know. The Self that does not know can acquire a body. The Self that knows can relinquish the body, just as a crude clay vessel, once fired, loses its former shape and appearance and never arises again in that form. The afflictions of a wise person are likewise: once destroyed, they will certainly never arise again.”

The Buddha said:

“Good man! Regarding what you call ‘knowing,’ is it wisdom that can know, or is it the Self that can know? If wisdom can know, why do you say that the Self knows?

If the Self knows, why employ skillful means to seek wisdom? If you maintain that the Self knows by relying upon wisdom, this is the same as the analogy of the destructive flower. Good man!

For example, it is the intrinsic nature of a thorn to pierce; one cannot say that a tree grasps a thorn and pierces. Wisdom is likewise: wisdom itself can know, so how can you say that the Self grasps wisdom in order to know? Good man!

According to your doctrine, when the Self attains liberation, does it know that it has attained liberation or not? If it cannot know this, you should understand that it remains as before, fully possessed of afflictions. If it can know this, you should understand that it possesses all five sense faculties.

Why? Apart from the faculties, there is no other knowing. If it possesses all the faculties, how can it be called liberated?

If you say that the nature of this Self is pure and apart from the five faculties, how can you say that the Self pervades all five realms? For what cause and condition, then, does one cultivate wholesome dharmas for the sake of liberation? Good man!

It is like someone trying to pull a thorn out of empty space; you are likewise. If the Self is pure, why speak of severing the afflictions? If you maintain that liberation is attained without causes and conditions, why do all animals not attain it?”

Seni said:

“Venerable Gautama! If there is no Self, who can remember and recollect?”

The Buddha told Seni:

“If there is a Self, for what reason does one forget? Good man! If recollection is the Self, for what cause and condition does one entertain evil thoughts, think of what should not be thought of, and fail to think of what should be thought of?”

Seni again said:

“Venerable Gautama! If there is no Self, who sees? Who hears?”

The Buddha taught:

– Good man! Internally there are six sense bases, externally there are six sense objects, and from the conjunction of the internal and external arise the six kinds of consciousness. These six kinds of consciousness receive their names according to their causes and conditions. Good man! For example, fire produced from wood is called a wood fire; fire produced from grass is called a grass fire; fire produced from rice husks is called a rice-husk fire; and fire produced from cow dung is called a cow-dung fire. The consciousness of sentient beings is likewise. Arising in dependence upon the eye, form, light, and the desire to see, it is called eye-consciousness. Good man! Thus, eye-consciousness does not reside within the eye... nor even within the desire to see; yet through the conjunction of these four conditions, this consciousness arises... and so it is also with mind-consciousness. If knowledge arises through the conjunction of causes and conditions, one should not say that seeing itself is the Self... nor even that contact itself is the Self. Good man! Therefore, I say that eye-consciousness... through mind-consciousness, and all phenomena, are like illusions. Why are they said to be like illusions? Because what originally did not exist now comes into being, and after coming into being, returns to nonexistence. Good man! For example, milk curds, vermicelli made from flour, honey, ginger, pepper, long pepper, grapes, walnuts, pomegranates, and xuan seeds... when compounded together are called a “Pill of Joy.” Apart from this combination, there is no Pill of Joy. The six internal and external sense bases are called a sentient being, a self, a person, or an individual. Apart from the six internal and external sense bases, there is no other sentient being, self, person, or individual!

Seni said:

– Venerable Gautama! If there is no Self, how can it be said: “I see, I hear, I suffer, I am happy, I grieve, and I rejoice”?

The Buddha said:

– Good man! If saying, “I see, I hear,” establishes the existence of a Self, then for what reason do people in the world also say, “The wrongdoing committed by you was not something seen or heard by me”? Good man! For example, when the four divisions of an army are assembled, they are called an army. Although these four divisions are not individually called an army, one nevertheless says, “My army is valiant; my army has defeated the other army.” The activities arising from the conjunction of the six internal and external sense bases are likewise. Although they are not a single entity, one may nevertheless say, “I act, I experience, I see, I hear, I suffer, and I am happy.”

Seni said:

– Venerable Gautama! According to what you have said, when the internal and external come together, who utters the words, “I act, I experience...”?

The Buddha said:

– Seni! Through the causes and conditions of ignorance and craving, karma arises; from karma arises existence; from existence arise innumerable mental factors; from the mind arise initial and sustained thought; initial and sustained thought stir the wind; and following the mind, the wind makes contact with the throat, tongue, teeth, and lips. Sentient beings, through inverted perceptions, then utter the words, “I act, I experience, I see, I hear...” Good man! It is like a small bell attached to the top of a banner: through the condition of wind, it produces sound. When the wind is strong, the sound is loud; when the wind is gentle, the sound is soft. Yet there is no agent. Good man! It is also like heated iron cast into water, producing various sounds, although in truth there is no agent therein. Good man! Ordinary beings are unable to reflect upon and discern matters such as these, and therefore they say that there are a self and possessions of the self, a self that acts, and a self that experiences!

Seni said:

– According to what Venerable Gautama has said, if there are no self and possessions of the self, then for what reason do you speak of Permanence, Bliss, Self, and Purity?

The Buddha said:

– Good man! I do not say that the six internal and external sense bases, the six consciousnesses, or the mind are Permanent, Blissful, the Self, and Pure. I have proclaimed that the cessation of the six consciousnesses produced by the six internal and external sense bases is called Permanence. Because of this Permanence, it is called the Self. Because there are Permanence and Self, it is called Bliss. Because there are Permanence, Self, and Bliss, it is called Purity. Good man! Sentient beings grow weary of suffering, sever the cause of suffering, and freely transcend it; this is called the Self. For this reason, I now proclaim Permanence, Bliss, Self, and Purity.

Seni said:

– World-Honored One! I pray that the Great Compassionate One will explain this to me! What must I do to realize such Permanence, Bliss, Self, and Purity?

The Buddha said:

– Good man! From time immemorial, all beings in the world have been replete with great conceit, which can increase conceit; they also create the causes of conceit and the karma of conceit. Therefore, today they undergo the karmic retribution of conceit and are unable to transcend all afflictions and attain Permanence, Bliss, Self, and Purity. If sentient beings wish to transcend all afflictions, they must first abandon conceit!

Seni said:

– World-Honored One! So it is! So it is! It is indeed just as the Holy One has taught! Formerly, I was arrogant! Because of the causes and conditions of conceit, I addressed the Tathagata by the clan name Gautama! Now that I have abandoned such great conceit, I sincerely beseech you to teach me the Dharma: How shall I attain Permanence, Bliss, Self, and Purity?

The Buddha said:

– Good man! Listen attentively! Listen attentively! I shall now analyze and explain this for you! Good man! If a phenomenon is neither oneself, nor another, nor a sentient being, one can transcend that phenomenon!

Seni said:

– World-Honored One! I have now attained understanding of the true Dharma-eye!

The Buddha said:

– Good man! How have you known and understood the true Dharma-eye?

– World-Honored One! What is called form is neither oneself, nor another, nor any sentient being... and so it is even with consciousness. By contemplating in this way, I have attained the true Dharma-eye. World-Honored One! I now earnestly desire to leave the household life and cultivate the Way. I pray that you will grant me permission!

The Buddha said:

– Welcome, bhiksu!

At that very moment, he perfected the pure holy life and realized the fruit of arhatship.

Among the followers of other paths, there was also a brahmin of the Kasyapa clan, who said:

– Venerable Gautama! Is the body identical with life, or is the body one thing and life another?

The Tathagata remained silent. He asked a second and a third time, but the Tathagata likewise remained silent. The brahmin then said:

– Venerable Gautama! If a person relinquishes this body but has not yet obtained the next body, then during that intermediate interval, how could it not be said that the body is one thing and life another? If they are different, why does Venerable Gautama remain silent and give no answer?

– Good man! I teach that both body and life arise from causes and conditions, not without causes and conditions. As it is with body and life, so it is with all phenomena.

The brahmin said:

– Venerable Gautama! I see that in the world there are phenomena that do not arise from causes and conditions.

The Buddha said:

– Brahmin! How do you see that there are phenomena in the world that do not arise from causes and conditions?

The brahmin said:

– I see a great fire burning a thicket. The wind blows a flame away, and it falls elsewhere. Could this not be called something without causes and conditions?

The Buddha said:

– Good man! I say that this fire also arises from causes and conditions; it does not arise without causes and conditions!

The brahmin said:

– Venerable Gautama! When the flame travels onward without depending upon firewood or charcoal, how can it be said to depend upon causes and conditions?

The Buddha said:

– Good man! Although there is no firewood or charcoal, it travels in dependence upon the wind. Because of the cause and condition of the wind, that fire is not extinguished!

– Venerable Gautama! If a person relinquishes this body but has not yet obtained the next body, upon what causes and conditions does the intermediate life depend?

The Buddha said:

“Brahmin, ignorance and craving serve as causes and conditions. Because of these two causes and conditions—ignorance and craving—the lifespan continues. Good man, due to certain causes and conditions, the body is the life-principle and the life-principle is the body. Due to certain causes and conditions, the body is one thing and the life-principle another. The wise should not assert one-sidedly that the body is one thing and the life-principle another!”

The Brahmin said:

“World-Honored One, I pray that you distinguish and explain this for me, enabling me to understand cause and effect clearly!”

The Buddha said:

“Brahmin, the cause is the five skandhas, and the effect is also the five skandhas. Good man, if a being does not kindle a fire, there will be no smoke.”

The Brahmin said:

“World-Honored One, I now know! I now understand!”

The Buddha said:

“Good man, what do you know? How do you understand it?”

“World-Honored One, fire is the afflictions, which can burn beings in the hells and in the realms of hungry ghosts, animals, humans, and devas. Smoke is the karmic recompense of the afflictions. Because it is impermanent, impure, foul, and loathsome, it is called smoke. If a being does not produce afflictions, that person will have no karmic recompense arising from afflictions. Therefore, the Tathagata says that if one does not kindle a fire, there will be no smoke!

“World-Honored One, I have attained right view. I pray that the Compassionate One permit me to leave the household life!”

At that time, the World-Honored One instructed Kaundinya to admit this Brahmin into the monastic life and confer the precepts upon him. Having received the Buddha’s command, Kaundinya assembled the Sangha in harmony and permitted the Brahmin to leave the household life and receive full ordination. After five days, he attained the fruit of arhatship.

Among the adherents of other paths there was another Brahmin named Purna, who said:

“Master Gotama, do you teach that the world is eternal because you perceive worldly phenomena to be eternal? Is such a proposition true or false? Is the world eternal, impermanent, both eternal and impermanent, or neither eternal nor impermanent? Is it finite, infinite, both finite and infinite, or neither finite nor infinite? Are the body and the life-principle the same, or is the body one thing and the life-principle another? After the Tathagata’s passing, does he exist, not exist, both exist and not exist, or neither exist nor not exist?”

The Buddha said:

“Purna, I do not say that the world is eternal, whether such a statement is false or true. I do not say that it is eternal, impermanent, both eternal and impermanent, or neither eternal nor impermanent; that it is finite, infinite, both finite and infinite, or neither finite nor infinite; that the body is the life-principle, or that the body is one thing and the life-principle another; or that after the Tathagata’s passing he exists, does not exist, both exists and does not exist, or neither exists nor does not exist!”

Purna again said:

“Master Gotama, what fault do you perceive in these propositions that you do not teach them?”

The Buddha said:

“Purna, if someone says, ‘The world is eternal; this statement alone is true, and all other statements are false,’ that is called a view. Perceiving the object of that view is called the activity of view; it is called the karma of view; it is called attachment to view; it is called the bondage of view; it is called the suffering of view; it is called grasping at view; it is called the fear of view; it is called the fever of view; and it is called the entanglement of view.

Purna, ordinary beings are bound by views. They cannot free themselves from birth, aging, sickness, and death, but revolve through the six realms and undergo immeasurable suffering.... The same applies up to the assertion that after the Tathagata’s passing he neither exists nor does not exist.

Purna, I see that these views entail such faults. Therefore, I do not cling to them or teach them to others!”

“Master Gotama, since you perceive such faults and therefore neither cling to nor teach these views, what do you now perceive? To what do you cling, and where is it, that you proclaim your teaching?”

The Buddha said:

“Good man, whatever involves attachment to views is called a phenomenon of samsara. The Tathagata has transcended the phenomena of samsara and therefore does not cling. Good man, the Tathagata is called One Who Sees and One Who Teaches; he is not called one who clings!”

“Master Gotama, what is meant by One Who Sees? What is meant by One Who Teaches?”

The Buddha said:

“Good man, I clearly see suffering, its origin, its cessation, and the path, and I distinguish and proclaim these Four Truths. Because I see in this way, I can free myself from all views, all craving, all outflows, and all conceit. Therefore, I have perfected the supreme, quiescent, and pure holy life and realized the eternal body. This body is not located in the east, west, south, or north.”

Purna said:

“Master Gotama, for what reason is the eternal body not located in the east, west, south, or north?”

The Buddha said:

“Good man, I shall now ask you a question. Answer according to your understanding. What do you think, good man? Suppose a great fire were kindled before you. As that fire was being kindled, would you know that it was being kindled?”

“I would, Master Gotama!”

“When this fire went out, would you know that it had gone out?”

“I would, Master Gotama!”

“Purna, if someone asked you, ‘From where did the fire come before it was kindled, and where did it go after it was extinguished?’ how would you answer?”

“Master Gotama, if someone asked me this, I would answer: ‘When this fire arose, it did so in dependence upon various conditions. When the former conditions were exhausted and new conditions had not yet arisen, it went out.’”

“If someone further asked, ‘After this fire went out, in which direction did it go?’ how would you answer?”

“Master Gotama, I would answer: ‘When its conditions were exhausted, it was extinguished; it did not go in any direction.’”

“Good man, the Tathagata is likewise. Impermanent form, and so forth through impermanent consciousness, are kindled because of craving. To be kindled means to undergo existence in the twenty-five realms. Therefore, while the fire is kindled, it may be said to be in the east, west, south, or north. Now that craving has ceased, the karmic recompense of the twenty-five realms of existence is no longer kindled. Because it is no longer kindled, one cannot say that the fire is in the east, west, south, or north. Good man, the Tathagata has extinguished impermanent form, and so forth through impermanent consciousness. Therefore, his body is eternal. If the body is eternal, it cannot be said to be in the east, west, south, or north.”

Purna said:

“I wish to offer an analogy! I pray that you permit me!”

The Buddha said:

“Excellent! Excellent! Speak as you wish!”

“World-Honored One, suppose that outside a great village there were a grove of sala trees. Within that grove was a tree that had arisen before the others and had lived for a full hundred years. The owner of the grove watered this tree and tended it with water at the proper times. That tree grew old and decayed; its bark, branches, and leaves all fell away, leaving only its heartwood. The Tathagata is likewise: all that was old and decayed has been completely removed, and only all true Dharmas remain. World-Honored One, I now earnestly desire to leave the household life and cultivate the path!”

The Buddha said:

“Come, bhikkhu!”

When these words were spoken, Purna immediately entered the monastic life, exhausted the outflows, and attained the fruit of arhatship.

THE MAHAPARINIRVANA SUTRA

— End of Fascicle Thirty-Five —