大般涅槃經

CHAPTER ON KAUṆḌINYA

Chapter Thirteen — Part One

At that time, the Blessed One said to Kauṇḍinya: “Form [skandha] is impermanent. By eliminating this [impermanent] form, one attains liberated form, which is eternal. Feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness are likewise impermanent. By eliminating these [impermanent feelings, perceptions, and formations, and] consciousness, one attains liberated [feeling, perception, formations, and] consciousness, which are eternal.

“Kauṇḍinya! Form is suffering. By eliminating this form [which is suffering], one attains liberated form, which is blissful. The same is true of feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness.

“Kauṇḍinya! Form is empty. By eliminating this form [which is empty], one attains liberated form, which is not empty. The same is true of feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness.

“Kauṇḍinya! Form is non-self. By eliminating this [non-self] form, one attains liberated form, which is the true self. The same is true of feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness.

“Kauṇḍinya! Form is impure. By eliminating this [impure] form, one attains liberated form, which is pure. The same is true of feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness.

“Kauṇḍinya! Form bears the marks of birth, aging, illness, and death. By eliminating this form [which bears the marks of birth, aging, illness, and death], one attains liberated form, which does not bear the marks of birth, aging, illness, and death. The same is true of feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness.

“Kauṇḍinya! Form is a cause of ignorance through to birth. By eliminating this form [which is a cause of ignorance through to birth], one attains liberated form, which is not a cause of ignorance [through to birth]. The same is true of feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness.

“Kauṇḍinya! Form is a cause of the four inversions. By eliminating this [inverted] form, one attains liberated form, which is not a cause of the four inversions. The same is true of feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness.

“Kauṇḍinya! Form is a cause of innumerable unwholesome phenomena, such as a male body, a female body, craving for food and drink, sensual desire, greed, anger, jealousy, a malicious mind, a miserly and parsimonious mind... sustenance by chewing and swallowing, sustenance by consciousness, sustenance by thought, and sustenance by contact; birth from an egg, birth from a womb, birth from moisture, and birth through transformation... extending even to the five sensual pleasures and the five hindrances... All such phenomena have form as their cause. By eliminating this form, one attains liberated form, in which none of these innumerable evils exists. The same is true of feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness.

“Kauṇḍinya! Form is bondage. By eliminating the form that binds, one attains liberated form, which is free from bondage. The same is true of feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness.

“Kauṇḍinya! Form is transmigration. By eliminating the form that transmigrates, one attains liberated form, which does not transmigrate. The same is true of feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness.

“Kauṇḍinya! Form is not a refuge upon which one may rely. By eliminating this form, one attains liberated form, which is a refuge upon which one may rely. The same is true of feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness.

“Kauṇḍinya! Form is an ulcer [painful and loathsome]. By eliminating this form [which is like an ulcer], one attains liberated form, which is not an ulcer. The same is true of feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness.

“Kauṇḍinya! Form is not tranquil and quiescent. By eliminating this form [which is not tranquil and quiescent], one attains the nirvana of form, which is tranquil and quiescent. The same is true of feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness.

“Kauṇḍinya! Whoever clearly understands the foregoing deserves to be called a śramaṇa or brahmin, one who has perfectly accomplished all the qualities of a śramaṇa or brahmin.

“Kauṇḍinya! Apart from the Buddha-Dharma, there are no śramaṇas or brahmins whatsoever, nor are there any qualities of śramaṇas or brahmins. All followers of other paths merely make false claims for themselves and possess no genuine practice of the Way. Although they conceive the notion that [within their groups] there are śramaṇas and brahmins, in truth there can be none. Why is this? If the qualities of śramaṇas and brahmins are absent, how can it be said that śramaṇas and brahmins are present?

“Amid this great assembly, I constantly raise my voice [and expound the True Dharma, resounding like] a lion’s roar. You too should raise your voices amid the great assembly [and expound the True Dharma, resounding like] a lion’s roar.”

At that time, innumerable followers of other paths heard these words and became angry. They thought: “Now Gautama says that among us there are no śramaṇas or brahmins, nor any qualities of śramaṇas or brahmins. We must find every suitable means to tell Gautama that among us there are also śramaṇas and the qualities of śramaṇas, as well as brahmins and the qualities of brahmins.”

Then, from among the [followers of other paths], a brahmacārin stood up and said: “Venerable sirs, Gautama’s words are no different from those of a madman. How can they be examined seriously? Mad people in the world sometimes sing and dance, at other times weep and laugh, and sometimes revile or praise others, being unable to distinguish enemies from loved ones.

The śramaṇa Gautama is just the same. Sometimes he says that he was born into the family of King Śuddhodana, while at other times he says that he was not born. Sometimes he says that immediately after birth he walked seven steps, while at other times he says that he did not walk.

Sometimes he says that in his youth he studied the worldly fields of learning, while at other times he says that he knew everything [by himself]. Sometimes he enjoyed pleasures in the palace and fathered a son, while at other times he grew weary of these things and denounced them as vile and base. Sometimes he himself practiced austerities for six years, while at other times he censures the austerities of other paths.

Sometimes he says that he studied under Udraka Rāmaputra, Ārāḍa, and others, hearing and receiving from them what he had not previously known, while at other times he says that they understood nothing at all. Sometimes he says that he attained anuttara-samyak-saṃbodhi beneath the bodhi tree, while at other times he says that he never went to that tree and attained nothing whatsoever. Sometimes he says that this very body of his is nirvana, while at other times he says that only after this body has perished is there nirvana.

The words uttered by Gautama [in this manner] are truly no different from the words of a madman. Why, then, do you grieve and become distressed on account of them?”

The brahmins immediately replied: “Venerable sir! How could we not grieve today? Formerly, after the śramaṇa Gautama renounced the household life, he taught the principles of impermanence, suffering, emptiness, non-self, and impurity. When our disciples heard this, they became frightened: ‘How can sentient beings be impermanent, suffering, empty, without self, and impure?’ Therefore, they did not believe or follow those words. Now Gautama has come to this sāla grove and teaches the great assembly that there are phenomena that are eternal, blissful, the self, and pure. After hearing these words, our disciples will surely abandon us and follow Gautama’s teaching in faith. For this reason, we are overwhelmed by grief and anguish.”

At that time, another brahmin said: “Good sirs! Listen carefully to what I am about to say! The ascetic Gautama claims to be one who cultivates loving-kindness and compassion, but those words are false and untrue. If he possesses loving-kindness and compassion, why does he teach our disciples to accept his doctrine? The fruit of cultivating loving-kindness and compassion is to accord with the wishes of others, yet now he acts contrary to our wishes. How, then, can he be said to possess loving-kindness and compassion?

“If it is said that the ascetic Gautama is not defiled by the eight worldly dharmas, that too is false. If Gautama has few desires and knows contentment, why does he now deprive us of our benefits?

“If it is said that Gautama belongs to a noble lineage, that too is false. Why is this? Never since ancient times has anyone heard of a great lion king harming tiny mice. If Gautama belongs to a noble lineage, why does he now disturb and afflict us?

“If it is said that Gautama possesses complete and mighty power, that too is false. Why is this? Never since ancient times has anyone heard of the garuda king contending with crows. If Gautama truly possesses such strength, why does he contend with us?

“If it is said that Gautama possesses the knowledge of others’ minds, that too is false. Why is this? If he possesses the knowledge of others’ minds, for what reason does he not know our thoughts?

“Good sirs! Long ago, I heard venerable and wise elders say: After another hundred years, a bewitching demon will appear in the world—and it is none other than this Gautama. That bewitching demon is now in this Sala Grove and before long will perish of itself. Therefore, you should not grieve.”

At that time, a follower of the Nirgrantha school replied: “Good sirs! I now suffer and grieve not because my disciples make offerings to me, but only because worldly people are foolish and benighted, having no eyes to see and being unable to distinguish what is a field of merit. Thus, they abandon venerable and wise brahmins and instead make offerings to the young. For this reason, I grieve!

“The ascetic Gautama is highly skilled in spells. Through the power of spells, he can transform one body into innumerable bodies and can also make innumerable bodies become one body again; or he can transform himself into a man, a woman, an ox, a goat, an elephant, a horse, and so forth. My power can destroy such spells. Once the ascetic Gautama’s spells have been destroyed, you will once again receive abundant offerings and enjoy peace and happiness.”

At that time, another brahmin said: “Good sirs! The ascetic Gautama has fully accomplished immeasurable merit and virtue. Therefore, you should not contend with him.”

The assembly of followers of other paths replied: “Foolish man! Why do you say that the ascetic Gautama possesses great and complete merit? His mother died only seven days after his birth. Can this be called a mark of merit and virtue?”

That brahmin replied: “When insulted, he does not become angry; when struck, he does not strike back. You should know that these are indeed marks of great merit and virtue. His body possesses the thirty-two excellent marks and the eighty minor characteristics, as well as immeasurable spiritual powers.

Therefore, one knows that these are marks of merit and virtue. His mind is free from arrogance, and he always questions others in accordance with their wishes; his words are gentle and pleasing, never coarse. Though in the vigor and prime of youth, he is neither impetuous nor irascible.

Though he would have become a king ruling a realm and possessing great wealth, he felt no greed or attachment; he cast everything aside as one spits out saliva and left home to become a renunciant. Therefore, I say that the ascetic Gautama has fully accomplished immeasurable merit and virtue.”

The followers of other paths replied: “Excellent! It is indeed just as you say: the ascetic Gautama has accomplished immeasurable spiritual powers and transformations. We will not compete with him in such matters. Yet the ascetic Gautama was born with a delicate disposition and cannot endure ascetic practices. Having been born and raised within the royal palace, he does not understand affairs outside it. He knows only how to speak gentle words and is not versed in the arts and crafts, histories, treatises, debates, and so forth. Let us invite him to debate with us clearly on the essential principles of the true Dharma. If he prevails, we shall attend upon and serve him; if we prevail, he must serve us.”

At that time, innumerable followers of other paths assembled together and, with one accord, went to King Ajatasatru of Magadha. Upon seeing them, the king asked: “Good sirs! You all cultivate the Noble Path. You are renunciants who have abandoned wealth and household affairs. The people of this realm all make offerings to you, revere you, and look upon you with respect; no one dares offend you. Why, then, have you assembled with one accord and come here?

“Good sirs! You each receive and uphold different teachings, observe different precepts, and come from different family circumstances. Each of you has left home to cultivate the Way in accordance with your own discipline and doctrine. What worldly cause now brings you together with one mind, like fallen leaves gathered into one place by a whirlwind? Tell me the reason you have come here. I have always wholeheartedly supported renunciants, without begrudging even my body or life.”

At that time, all the followers of other paths addressed the king together, saying: “Great King! Please listen carefully. The Great King is now the great bridge of the teachings, the great encouragement of the teachings, the great balance of the teachings, the repository of all merit and virtue, the true nature of all merit and virtue, and the path of the true Dharma. You are a fertile field in which seeds may be sown, the foundation of the entire realm, the bright mirror of the whole country, the embodiment of all devas, and the father and mother of all the people of the realm.

“Great King! Your person is a treasury containing all the merit and virtue of the world. Why is it called a treasury of merit and virtue? When the king adjudicates the affairs of the state, he makes no distinction between enemy and friend, but maintains an impartial mind of equality, like earth, water, fire, and wind. Therefore, the king is honored as a treasury of merit and virtue.

“Great King! Although the lives of beings in the present age are short, the king’s merit and virtue are enduring, like those ancient kings who enjoyed happiness and longevity; they are also like the kings Mandhatr, Sudarsana, Kshantivadin, Nahusha, Yayati, Sibi, and Aikshvaku. Those kings all fully possessed wholesome qualities, and now the Great King possesses wholesome qualities just as they did.

“Great King! Because of the king, the realm enjoys peace and happiness and the people are prosperous and strong. Therefore, all renunciants delight in this realm and come here to observe the precepts diligently and cultivate the true Path.

“Great King! Our scriptures state: ‘If renunciants dwelling in a certain realm uphold the precepts vigorously and diligently cultivate the true Path, then the king of that realm also shares in the merit of their cultivation of goodness.

“Great King! The king has already pacified all brigands, and those who have gone forth need no longer be afraid. Now there remains only one greatly evil man: the shramana Gautama.

The king has not yet investigated him, and we are deeply fearful. Relying on his birth into a noble clan, his handsome form, and the abundant offerings he receives through the karmic reward of generosity practiced in past lives, he has become exceedingly arrogant. Or perhaps his arrogance arises from his knowledge of incantations.

For these reasons, he refuses to undertake ascetic practices, yet accepts and stores all manner of fine, soft garments, blankets, and cushions. Thus, all the wicked people throughout the world gather around him for the sake of gain and offerings, becoming his retinue and refusing to practice austerities. Through the power of his incantations, he has subdued Kashyapa and such men as Shariputra and Maudgalyayana...

“Now he has come again to our place in the sala grove, loudly teaching that this body is permanent, blissful, self, and pure, in order to entice our disciples.

“Great King! Formerly, Gautama taught impermanence, non-bliss, non-self, and impurity, and we were still able to endure it. But now he loudly teaches permanence, bliss, self, and purity, and we truly can endure it no longer. We ask the Great King to permit us to hold a debate with that Gautama.”

King [Ajatashatru] then replied: “Gentlemen! Whose incitement have you now heard that has made your minds so frenzied and restless, like turbulent water, a raging fire, or monkeys swinging from branch to branch? This is truly shameful. When the wise hear it, they will surely pity you; when fools hear it, they will surely ridicule you. What you have said does not befit those who have gone forth. If you suffer from seasonal illnesses or abscesses, I have medicines to cure them. If you are afflicted by a disease caused by spirits, my Jivaka has incantations capable of dispelling it. But now you wish to claw Mount Sumeru with your fingernails and gnaw diamond with your teeth—[you are truly beyond cure]!

“Gentlemen! It is like a foolish man who sees the lord of lions lying asleep while hungry and attempts to wake him; like one who puts a finger into the mouth of a venomous snake; or like one who wishes to touch with his hand a heap of ashes concealing burning coals. You are now [just as foolish]!

“Gentlemen! It is like a jackal [wishing] to roar with a lion’s voice, a mosquito competing in speed with a garuda, or a hare [wishing] to wade across the sea and touch the bottom with its feet. You are now [just as mad]! Even if you dreamt that you had defeated the shramana Gautama, that dream would be nothing but a deluded fantasy and could not be believed.

“Gentlemen! In conceiving this intention, you are no different from moths flying into a great fire. You should heed my words and say no more. Although you praise me as being impartial as the beam of a balance, you truly should not let outsiders hear such words.”

At that time, the heterodox teachers again addressed the king: “Great King! Could it be that the shramana Gautama’s magic has already reached you, causing you to harbor doubts and disbelieve the sages? The Great King should not disdain the great adepts gathered here.

“Great King! The moon is sometimes full and sometimes waning; all the waters of the great ocean are salty; and there is that Mount Malayagiri—who created these things? Was it not our brahmins?

Has the Great King not heard how the seer Agastya held back the waters of the Ganges in [his] ear for twelve years? Has the Great King not heard how the seer Gautama manifested great supernormal powers and, for twelve years, transformed himself into the body of Shakra, transformed Shakra’s body into that of a ram, and then produced one thousand female organs upon Shakra’s body? Has the Great King not heard how the seer Jinu drank dry the waters of the four seas in a single day, causing the land to become parched?

Has the Great King not heard how the seer Vasu created three eyes for the god Ishvara? Has the Great King not heard how the seer Arada turned the city of Kalapu into barren, saline land?

“Great King! Within the brahmin path there are seers possessing such great spiritual powers, who can still be examined today. Why, then, does the Great King hold them in contempt?”

The king replied: “Gentlemen! If you do not believe my words and are determined to proceed, the Tathagata, the Perfectly Awakened One, is presently in the nearby sala grove. You may go there and question him as you please. The Tathagata will distinguish and explain these matters for you in accordance with your intentions.”

Then King Ajatashatru, together with the heterodox teachers and their disciples and retinues, went to where the Buddha was. The king bowed his head and face to the ground in homage at the Buddha’s feet, then circumambulated the Buddha three times to the right. Having completed these rites of reverence, he withdrew and stood to one side, saying to the Buddha: “World-Honored One! These heterodox teachers wish to question you freely. May the Tathagata answer them as he sees fit.”

The Buddha said: “Very well. Great King, please wait there for a while. I myself know the appropriate time [to answer them].”

At that time, among the assembly was a brahmin named Jatishuna, who spoke and asked: “Gautama! Do you say that nirvana is an eternally abiding Dharma?”

The Buddha replied: “Great Brahmin, it is indeed so!”

The brahmin continued: “Gautama! If you say that nirvana is permanent, this assertion is incorrect. Why is this? As with worldly phenomena, fruit arises from seed in an unbroken succession; a jar is made from clay, and cloth is [woven] from thread.

“Gautama often says: ‘Through cultivating the contemplation of impermanence, one attains nirvana.’ If the cause is impermanent, how can the result be permanent?

“Gautama also says: ‘Freedom from craving in the Desire Realm is nirvana. Freedom from craving in the Form Realm and the Formless Realm is nirvana. The eradication of ignorance and all afflictions is nirvana.’ From desire through ignorance, all afflictions are impermanent. If the cause is impermanent, then the [resulting] nirvana that is attained should also be impermanent!

“Gautama also says: ‘Through causes [previously created], one is born in the heavenly realms; through causes [previously created], one falls into hell; through causes [previously created], one attains liberation. Therefore, all dharmas arise from causes.’ If liberation is attained through arising from causes, how can that liberation be said to be permanent?

“Gautama also says: ‘Because form arises through conditions, it is called impermanent. Feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness are likewise.’ Thus, if liberation is form, it should be known to be impermanent. [If it is] feeling, perception, formations, or consciousness, the same applies. But if liberation exists apart from all five skandhas [form, feeling, perception, formations, and consciousness], then it should be known that such liberation is space. If it is space, it cannot be said to arise through causes and conditions. Why is this? Because space is permanent, singular, and all-pervasive.

“Gautama also says: ‘Whatever arises from causes is suffering.’ If it is suffering, why do you say that liberation is bliss?”

“Gautama also says: ‘Impermanence is suffering, and suffering is non-self. If something is impermanent, suffering, and non-self, then it is impure. All dharmas arising from causes are impermanent, suffering, non-self, and impure. Why, then, do you say that nirvana is permanent, blissful, the Self, and pure?

“If Gautama says that [nirvana] is permanent yet also impermanent; blissful yet also suffering; the Self yet also non-self; pure yet also impure—would that not be speaking two contradictory words? I once heard elder wise men of former times say: ‘If a Buddha appears in the world, he does not speak two contradictory words.’ Yet [if this is so,] Gautama has now spoken two contradictory words.

“Gautama also says: ‘The Buddha is precisely this present body of mine.’ What does this mean?”

The Buddha said, “Brahmin! Concerning what you have just said, I shall now question you, and you may answer as you please.”

The Brahmin replied, “Excellent, Gautama! [Please ask]!”

The Buddha asked, “Brahmin! Is your primal nature permanent or impermanent?”

The Brahmin replied, “My primal nature is permanent.”

The Buddha asked, “Brahmin! Can that primal nature serve as the cause of all dharmas within [the body] and outside [the body]?”

He replied, “Indeed it can, Gautama!”

The Buddha asked again, “Brahmin! In what manner does it serve as a cause?”

The Brahmin replied, “Gautama! From primal nature arises the Great Principle; from the Great Principle arises egoity; and from egoity arise sixteen dharmas, namely: earth, water, fire, wind, space, the five cognitive faculties [the eyes, ears, nose, tongue, and body], the five faculties of action [the hands, feet, organ of speech, and the male and female organs], and the faculty of the equanimous mind. These sixteen dharmas arise from five dharmas, namely: form, sound, fragrance, taste, and touch. These twenty-one dharmas are rooted in three dharmas: defilement, coarseness, and darkness. Defilement is called craving; coarseness is called anger; and darkness is called ignorance.

“Gautama! These twenty-five dharmas all arise from primal nature.”

The Buddha asked again, “Brahmin! Are the Great Principle and all those other dharmas permanent or impermanent?”

The Brahmin replied, “Gautama! According to our teaching, primal nature is permanent, while the Great Principle and all the other dharmas are impermanent.”

The Buddha said, “Brahmin! According to your teaching, the cause is permanent while the effect is impermanent. What error, then, is there in my teaching that although the cause is impermanent, the effect is permanent?

“Brahmin! Does your teaching distinguish two kinds of causes?”

He replied, “Yes, it does.”

The Buddha asked, “What are these two causes?”

The Brahmin replied, “The first is a generative cause, and the second is an illuminating cause.”

The Buddha asked again, “What is a generative cause? What is an illuminating cause?”

The Brahmin replied, “A generative cause is like clay from which a jar is made; an illuminating cause is like a lamp whose light reveals an object.”

The Buddha asked, “These two kinds of causes nevertheless share the same nature [of serving as causes for other dharmas]. If they possess one [common nature], can a generative cause be taken as an illuminating cause, or vice versa?”

The Brahmin replied, “It cannot, Gautama!”

The Buddha asked again, “If a generative cause cannot serve as an illuminating cause, or vice versa, can they still be said to possess the characteristic of a cause?”

The Brahmin replied, “Although they cannot replace one another, they nevertheless possess the characteristic of a cause.”

The Buddha asked again, “Brahmin! Is that which is revealed by an illuminating cause identical to the illuminating cause itself?”

He replied, “No, Gautama!”

The Buddha said, “So too in my Dharma: although nirvana is attained from impermanence, [nirvana] is not impermanent; [it is not identical to impermanence].

“Brahmin! That which is attained through a cause of realization is therefore permanent, blissful, the Self, and pure. That which comes into being through a generative cause is therefore impermanent, suffering, non-self, and impure. Thus, although the Tathagata’s teaching is divided into two [meanings], this division into two does not truly constitute two [contradictory meanings]. Therefore, the Tathagata never speaks two contradictory words.

“As you have just said, you once heard elder wise men of former times declare: ‘If a Buddha appears in the world, he does not speak two contradictory words.’ How true those words are! The teachings of all Buddhas throughout the ten directions and the three periods of time are without difference; hence it is said: ‘A Buddha does not speak two contradictory words.’ What does it mean to be without difference? If something exists, [all Buddhas] say that it exists; if it does not exist, [all Buddhas] say that it does not exist. Therefore, this is called one and the same meaning.

“Brahmin! Although the Tathagata, the World-Honored One, [at times] uses two expressions to name [a matter], they are always used to elucidate a single expression. How are two expressions used to elucidate one expression? For example, the eye and form are two, but the [visual] consciousness they produce is one. The same is true of the mind and dharmas [which produce the other consciousnesses].”

The Brahmin [Jatishuna] said, “Gautama is truly skilled at distinguishing such meanings. Yet I still do not understand how two expressions are used to elucidate one expression.”

The World-Honored One then expounded the Four Noble Truths for the Brahmin [Jatishuna]. Afterward, the Buddha said:

“Brahmin! The Truth of Suffering is also two and also one; and so it is with the Truth of the Path, which is also two and also one.”

The Brahmin [Jatishuna] then said, “World-Honored One! I now understand.”

The Buddha asked, “Good man! How do you understand?”

The Brahmin [Jatishuna] replied, “World-Honored One! For all ordinary beings, the Truth of Suffering is two; for noble ones, it is one. The same is true through to the Truth of the Path.”

The Buddha said, “Excellent! You have understood.”

The Brahmin [Jatishuna] said, “World-Honored One! Now that I have heard the True Dharma, I have attained right view and knowledge. I take refuge in the Three Jewels: the Buddha, the Dharma, and the Sangha. I humbly beseech the Great Compassionate One to permit me to leave the household life.”

The World-Honored One then said to Kaundinya, “Shave Jatishuna’s beard and hair, and permit him to leave the household life.”

Obeying the Buddha’s instruction, Kaundinya began to shave Jatishuna’s hair. At the very moment the razor was applied, his beard, hair, and afflictions all fell away together. There, upon his seat [at that very moment], Jatishuna immediately attained the noble fruit of arhatship.

Next, a brahmin ascetic of the Vasistha clan spoke and asked, “Gautama! According to what you have said, is nirvana permanent?”

The Buddha replied, “Indeed it is, brahmin ascetic!”

Vasistha said, “Gautama! You also say that the absence of afflictions is nirvana?”

The Buddha replied, “Indeed I do, brahmin ascetic!”

Vasistha said, “In the world, there are four cases that are described as nonexistent.

“First, a dharma that has not yet appeared is called nonexistent, just as while a jar is still merely clay, it is said that no jar exists.

“Second, a dharma that has ceased and vanished is called nonexistent, just as when a jar has been broken, it is said that no jar exists.

“Third, because characteristics differ, [what has one characteristic] does not [have another]; just as within [the characteristic of] a cow there is no horse, and within [the characteristic of] a horse there is no cow.

“Fourth, things that are utterly nonexistent are called nonexistent, such as a turtle’s hair or a hare’s horns.

“Gautama! If nirvana is so called because the afflictions have been completely extinguished, then nirvana is nonexistent. If [nirvana] is nonexistent, how can you say that it is permanent, blissful, the Self, and pure?”

The Buddha said: “Good man! Such nirvana does not fall under the category of nonexistence before [arising], as with a jar while it is still clay; nor does it fall under the category of nonexistence through cessation, as with a jar [after] it has been broken; nor is it nonexistent because it is utterly absent, like a turtle’s hair or a rabbit’s horn. Nirvana falls under the category of nonexistence by reason of distinct characteristics.

“Good man! As you have just said, although within [the characteristics of] an ox there is no horse, one cannot therefore say that the ox is also nonexistent; and although within [the characteristics of] a horse there is no ox, one cannot therefore say that the horse is also nonexistent. Nirvana is likewise. Within the afflictions there is no nirvana, and within nirvana there are no afflictions. Therefore, this is called distinct characteristics: where this characteristic exists, that characteristic does not exist.”

Vasishtha said: “Gautama! If it is said that nonexistence by reason of distinct [characteristics] is nirvana, then that nonexistence by reason of distinct [characteristics] does not possess permanence, bliss, self, or purity. Why, then, does Gautama say that nirvana is permanence, bliss, self, and purity?”

The Buddha said: “Good man! According to what you have said, within that nonexistence by reason of distinct [characteristics], all three categories of nonexistence are present. Oxen, horses, and so forth previously did not exist and only came into existence afterward; this is the category of nonexistence before [arising]. Having come into existence, they later [cease and] return to nonexistence; this is the category of nonexistence through cessation. As for the category of nonexistence by reason of distinct characteristics, it is as you have just stated.

“Good man! None of these three categories of nonexistence is present in nirvana. Therefore, nirvana is permanence, bliss, self, and purity. It is like illnesses in the world: first, an illness of heat; second, a seasonal illness; and third, an illness of cold. These three kinds of illness have three kinds of medicine to cure them. Ghee [made from milk] can cure an illness of heat; oil [for wind ailments] can cure a seasonal illness; and sweet honey can cure an illness of cold. These three kinds of medicine can cure the three kinds of illnesses that harm [people].

“Good man! Within [the illness of] heat there is no ghee, and within ghee there is no [illness of] heat. Within [the illness of] wind there is no oil [for wind ailments], and within the oil there is no [illness of] wind. Likewise, within sweet honey there is no [illness of] cold, and within [the illness of] cold there is no sweet honey. It is for this reason [that these medicines] can cure illness.

“All sentient beings are likewise. They have three kinds of illness: greed, anger, and delusion. These three kinds of illness have three kinds of medicine to cure them. The contemplation of impurity is the medicine that cures [the illness of] greed. The contemplation of loving-kindness and compassion is the medicine that cures [the illness of] anger. The wisdom [arising from] contemplation of causes and conditions is the medicine that cures [the illness of] delusion.

“Good man! To eliminate greed, one practices the contemplation of non-greed; to eliminate anger, one practices the contemplation of non-anger; and to eliminate delusion, one practices the contemplation of non-delusion.

“Within these three kinds of illness there are none of the three medicines; within the three medicines there are none of the three kinds of illness.

“Good man! Because the three medicines are not present within the three kinds of illness, those illnesses are impermanent, without self, without bliss, and without purity. Because the three kinds of illness are not present within the three medicines, those medicines may be called permanence, bliss, self, and purity.”

Vasishtha then asked: “World-Honored One! The Tathagata has explained permanence and impermanence for my sake. What is permanence? What is impermanence?”

The Buddha said: “Good man! Form is impermanent; liberation [from] form is permanent. Likewise, consciousness is impermanent; liberation [from] consciousness is permanent.

“Good man! If any good man or good woman is able to contemplate and discern that everything from form through consciousness is impermanent, you should know that such a person has attained the permanent Dharma.”

Vasishtha said: “World-Honored One! I now clearly understand the permanent Dharma and the impermanent dharmas.”

The Buddha asked: “Good man! How do you clearly understand the permanent Dharma and the impermanent dharmas?”

Vasishtha replied: “World-Honored One! I now know that this bodily form of mine is impermanent, while attaining liberation [from form] is permanent. [From form] through consciousness, all are likewise.”

The Buddha said: “Good man! Excellent! You have now repaid the debt incurred by bearing this body!”

The Buddha turned to Kaundinya and said: “Vasishtha has attained the fruit of arhatship. Give him the three-piece robe and an [alms] bowl.”

Kaundinya then obeyed the Buddha’s instruction and provided him with the complete robe and bowl.

After receiving the robe and bowl, Vasishtha said: “Venerable Kaundinya! Through this evil and impure body, I have now attained a wholesome fruit. May I trouble you, Venerable One, to go before the World-Honored One on my behalf and make my feelings clear: ‘Previously, I was an evil man who offended the Tathagata, daring to address the Buddha merely by the surname Gautama.’ May the Venerable One repent of that offense on my behalf. I can no longer remain for long in this poisonous body and shall enter nirvana.”

Kaundinya then went before the Buddha and said: “World-Honored One! The bhiksu Vasishtha has given rise to shame and remorse. He says that, in his foolish ignorance, he offended the Tathagata by daring to address the Buddha merely by the surname Gautama. He can no longer remain for long in this poisonous body and wishes to relinquish it, so he has asked me to repent on his behalf.”

The Buddha said: “Kaundinya! The bhiksu Vasishtha cultivated roots of goodness before immeasurable Buddhas of the past. He has now accepted my teaching and lives in accordance with the Dharma. Because he lives in accordance with the Dharma, he has attained the true fruit. You should make offerings to his [physical] body.”

Then, having heard the Buddha’s instruction, Kaundinya returned to the place where [the bhiksu Vasishtha] had relinquished his body and performed a ceremony of offerings.

At that time, while the body was being cremated, [the bhiksu] Vasishtha manifested all manner of supernatural powers.

When the followers of other paths saw this, they cried out loudly: “Vasishtha has attained the incantation arts of the sramana Gautama. Before long, he will surpass that sramana Gautama.”

At that time, among the followers of other paths was a brahmin named Senika, who spoke up and asked: “Gautama! Does a self truly exist?”

The Tathagata remained silent.

The brahmin Senika asked again: “Gautama! Does a self truly not exist?”

The Tathagata still remained silent.

The brahmin Senika asked in this way a second and a third time, yet the Tathagata continued to remain silent [and gave no reply].

The brahmin Senika then said: “Gautama! If all sentient beings possess a self, then that self must pervade every place and have been made by a creator. Why, then, does Gautama [not say so but] remain silent without answering?”

The Buddha asked: “Senika! You say that this self pervades every place. Is that so?”

The brahmin Senika replied: “Gautama! It is not I alone; all wise people say so.”

The Buddha said: “Good man! If this self pervades every place, it should simultaneously undergo karmic retribution in all five realms. If it simultaneously undergoes karmic retribution in all five realms, for what cause and reason do you brahmins refrain from committing evil so as not to enter hell and cultivate wholesome dharmas so as to obtain a heavenly body?”

Senika said: “Gautama! In our teaching there are two kinds of self: first, the self within the body that acts; and second, the self within the body that eternally abides. Because of the self within the body that acts, one must distance oneself from evil dharmas so as not to enter hell and cultivate wholesome dharmas so as to be born in the heavenly realm.”

The Buddha said: “Good man! According to what you have just said, that self pervades everywhere. Thus, if one says that this self is within the conditioned body and acts, one should know that it is impermanent. But if it is not within the conditioned body, how can it be said to pervade everywhere?”

Seni said: “Gautama! According to our doctrine of the self, that self is within the conditioned body and acts, yet it is also an eternal dharma.

“Gautama! Suppose a person causes a fire. When the house burns, the owner has already escaped. Thus, one cannot say that when the house burns, its owner is also burned to death. Our doctrine [of the self] is likewise. Although this conditioned body is impermanent, when impermanence arrives, the self [within the body] has already escaped. Therefore, according to us, the self pervades everywhere and is also eternal.”

The Buddha said: “Good man! Your statement that the self pervades everywhere and is also eternal is not correct.

“Why is this? Pervasion is of two kinds: eternal or impermanent. It is also of two kinds: possessing form or possessing no form. Therefore, when speaking of all existents, [among them] there are the eternal and the impermanent, those possessing form and those possessing no form.

“To say that because the owner has escaped [from the burning house], he is not called impermanent is not correct. Why is this? The house is not the owner, and the owner is not the house. That which burns and the person who escapes [the fire] are two different entities; therefore, such an escape is possible. The self is not like this. Why is this? Because [the self of which you speak] is itself form, and form is itself the self; the self is itself the formless, and the formless is itself the self. How then can you say, ‘While form becomes impermanent, the self has already escaped’?

“Good man! If you maintain that all sentient beings share one common self, this contradicts both worldly and supramundane dharmas. Why is this? In worldly dharmas there are distinguishing names such as father, mother, son, daughter, and so forth. If the self were one, the father would be the son and the son would be the father; the mother would be the daughter and the daughter would be the mother; an enemy would be a loved one and a loved one would be an enemy; this would be that and that would be this—[there would no longer be any distinction]. Therefore, to say that all sentient beings share one common self contradicts both worldly and supramundane dharmas.”

Seni then said: “I do not say that all sentient beings share one common self, but that each person has a separate self.”

The Buddha said: “Good man! To say that each person has a separate self means that there are many selves, but this is not correct. Why is this? As you said before, ‘The self pervades everywhere.’ If the self pervades everywhere, then the foundations of the karmic results of all sentient beings should be identical. When devas see [something], the Buddha should also see [the same thing]; when devas perform [some act], the Buddha should also perform [the same act]; when devas hear [something], the Buddha should also hear [the same thing].... All dharmas should likewise be so. If what devas see is not what the Buddha sees, one should not say, ‘The self pervades everywhere.’ If [the self] does not pervade everywhere, then it is impermanent.”

Seni said: “Gautama! Although the selves of all sentient beings pervade everywhere, dharma and non-dharma do not pervade everywhere. For this reason, the Buddha acts in one way and devas act in another. Therefore, Gautama, you should not say, ‘When the Buddha sees [something], devas should also see [the same thing]; when the Buddha hears [something], devas should also hear [the same thing].’”

The Buddha asked: “Good man! Are dharma and non-dharma not produced by karma?”

Seni replied: “Gautama! They are indeed produced by karma.”

The Buddha said: “Good man! If dharma and non-dharma are both produced by karma, then they are one and the same dharma; how can you say that they are different? Why is this? Within the Buddha’s [ripened] karma there is the self [that becomes] a deva; within a deva’s [ripened] karma there is the self [that becomes] a Buddha. Therefore, when the Buddha performs [something], devas also perform [the same thing]. Dharma and non-dharma should likewise be so.

“Good man! Therefore, if dharma and non-dharma are like this for all sentient beings, then the fruits of retribution they receive should not differ.

“Good man! A fruit arises from a seed. That seed never considers or discriminates, ‘I shall produce fruit only for brahmins and shall not produce fruit for [those of the castes of] kshatriyas, vaishyas, or shudras.’ Why is this? Fruit arises from a seed without any obstruction [caused by discrimination] among these four castes. Dharma and non-dharma are likewise: they cannot discriminate, ‘I shall produce a fruit only [for] the Buddha and shall not produce a fruit [for] devas; or I shall produce a fruit only [for] devas and shall not produce a fruit [for] the Buddha.’ Why is this? Because karmic [results] are impartial.”

Seni said: “Gautama! Suppose there are hundreds of thousands of lamps in a single room. Although their wicks differ, their light is all the same. The different wicks are an analogy for dharma and non-dharma; the identical light is an analogy for the selves of [all] sentient beings.”

The Buddha said: “Good man! Your use of lamplight as an analogy for the selves [of all sentient beings] is not correct. Why is this? The room and the lamps are [two entities] distinct from one another. The light of a lamp is both present at the wick and illuminates the entire room. If the self of which you speak were likewise, then the self should be present on both sides—in dharma and in non-dharma—and both dharma and non-dharma should also be present within the self. If dharma and non-dharma do not [both] possess the self, it cannot be said that the self pervades everywhere. But if both possess the self, how can the wick and the [lamp’s] light serve as an analogy?

“Good man! If you think that the wick and the light are truly different, then for what reason does the light grow bright when the wick is raised, while the light disappears when the wick is exhausted? Therefore, one should not compare dharma and non-dharma to the lamp and its wick, nor compare [the lamps’] identical light to the selves [of all sentient beings]. Why is this? Dharma, non-dharma, and the self—these three are but one.”

Seni said: “Gautama! Your use of the lamp analogy is truly not good. Why is this? If the lamp analogy is a good [analogy], [that is because] I introduced it first. If it is not a good [analogy], why do you repeat it?”

The Buddha said: “Good man! I gave that analogy without any concern whatsoever as to whether it was apt or inapt. Whether the analogy is apt or inapt arises solely from what you yourself have said.

In that analogy, I also clearly stated: ‘There is light that shines far from the lampwick, and there is also light right at the lampwick.’ Because your mind is not impartial, you said: ‘The lamp and its wick represent Dharma and non-Dharma, while the light represents the self.’ Therefore, I questioned you concerning the principle that there is light right at the lampwick and that there is also light far from the lampwick.

Dharma is precisely the self, and the self is precisely Dharma; non-Dharma is precisely the self, and the self is precisely non-Dharma, just as the lampwick and its light are not two distinct entities. Why do you now acknowledge only one side and not the other? Thus, such an analogy does not support your argument, and so I now turn that very analogy back upon you to instruct you.

“Good man! The analogy you have given does not constitute a valid analogy. Because it does not constitute a valid analogy, it supports my argument but does not support yours.

“Good man! If you think, ‘If it does not support me, it must also not support you,’ this is incorrect. Why? Consider the affairs of people in the world: sometimes one uses one’s own strength to harm oneself, and sometimes something one has made is taken up and used by another. The analogy you gave is just like this: it supports me but does not support you.”

Seni said: “Gautama! You have just reproached me for having an impartial mind, yet what you now say is also not impartial. Why? Gautama now takes what is favorable for yourself and what is unfavorable for me. From this it follows that you are indeed not impartial.”

The Buddha said: “Good man! My lack of impartiality can eliminate your lack of impartiality, thereby enabling you to attain impartiality; thus, my lack of impartiality is beneficial. My lack of impartiality eliminates your lack of impartiality and enables you to attain impartiality; this itself also means that I am impartial. Why? Because attaining impartiality is no different from the state of the noble ones.”

Seni said: “Gautama! The self is permanent and therefore impartial. Why do you say that you eliminate my lack of impartiality? All beings possess the self equally; why do you say that I am not impartial?”

The Buddha said: “Good man! You yourself have said that one will assume a body in hell, among hungry ghosts, or among animals, and that one will assume a body in the human or heavenly realm. If the self already pervades all five realms of existence, why speak of its subsequently assuming bodies in those different realms?

You also say that only after father and mother unite is a child born. If the child already existed beforehand, why say that it comes into being only after they unite? Therefore, a single person may assume a body in one of the five realms.

If a body already existed beforehand in each of those five realms, for what cause and condition would one have to create wholesome karma and avoid unwholesome karma for the sake of assuming a body? Therefore, I say that this is not impartial.

“Good man! If you think that the self is the agent that performs karma, this is incorrect. Why? If the self were the agent, for what cause and condition would it create suffering for itself, something it does not desire? Yet beings do indeed undergo suffering. Therefore, one should know that the self is not the agent that performs karma.

“If it is said that this suffering is not created by the self because suffering arises without a cause, then all dharmas should likewise arise without a cause. For what cause and condition, then, would you say that all dharmas are created by the self?

“Good man! The suffering and happiness of beings truly arise from causes and conditions. Such suffering and happiness can give rise to anxiety or joy. While there is anxiety, there is no joy; while there is joy, there is no anxiety. At one time there is anxiety, and at another there is joy. How could a wise person say that this is permanent?

“Good man! You say that the self is permanent. If it is permanent, why do you say that there are ten different stages of development? If the self were a permanent dharma, there should be no stages extending from the formation of the embryo in the womb to the stage of old age and decline. Space, for example, is a permanent dharma and does not have even a single stage, much less ten different stages of development.

“Good man! That self is not the stage of embryonic formation in the womb, nor is it, up to and including, the stage of old age and decline. Why, then, do you say that it has ten different stages?

“Good man! If the self is the agent that performs karma, then that self must also at times flourish and at times decline, for beings themselves at times flourish and at times decline. If the self is like this, how can it be permanent?

“Good man! If the self is the agent that performs karma, why is one person quick-witted in one matter but slow-witted in another?

“Good man! If the self is the agent that performs karma, that self can perform bodily karma and verbal karma. If bodily and verbal karma are performed by the self, why does the mouth say, ‘Does the self exist, or does the self not exist?’ Why would that very self itself give rise to doubt as to whether it exists or does not exist?

“Good man! If you think that seeing exists apart from the eye, this is incorrect. Why? If there were some other seeing apart from the eye, what need would there be for this eye? The same applies up to bodily contact.

“If you think that although the self is able to see, it must rely upon the eye, this is also incorrect. Why? It is as if someone were to say that a sumana flower can burn down a village and then explain: ‘How can it burn it down? By relying upon fire, it can burn it down.’ Your argument concerning the self’s seeing is equally absurd.”

Seni said: “Gautama! Just as a person holding a sickle can cut grass, so too the self, relying upon the five sense faculties—the eye, the ear, and so forth—is able to see, hear, and so on, up to and including touching.”

The Buddha said: “Good man! The sickle and the person holding it are two different entities; therefore, when the person holds the sickle, he can perform the work of cutting grass. Yet apart from the faculties, there is absolutely no separate self. How, then, can it be said that the self relies upon the faculties to perform the acts of seeing, hearing, and so forth?

“Good man! If you think that just as one can cut grass by holding a sickle, the self is also like this, then does that self have hands or not? If it has hands, why does it not grasp the sickle by itself? If it has no hands, why do you say that the self is the agent that performs all actions?

“Good man! The capacity to cut grass lies in the sickle, not in the self and not in the person cutting. If the self or the person cutting could cut the grass, why would there be any need to rely upon the sickle?

“Good man! The person cutting grass performs two actions: first, gathering and grasping the grass; and second, holding the sickle to cut it. The sickle has only one function: cutting. Beings’ contact with dharmas is likewise. The eye’s ability to see visible forms arises from the conjunction of conditions. If seeing arises through the conjunction of causes and conditions, how could a wise person say that there is a self within that seeing?”

“Good man! If you think that the body acts and the self receives [the result], that meaning is also incorrect. Why is this? Because in the world one never sees the gods create karma while the Buddha receives its fruit!

“If it is said that the body does not act, and that the self likewise does not receive [retribution] because of a [previously created] cause, then why do you Brahmins seek liberation through causes and conditions? If this body of yours did not previously arise through causes and conditions, then after attaining liberation, it likewise should not produce a body through causes and conditions. Just as with the body, so should it also be with all afflictions.”

Seni said, “Gautama! There are two kinds of self: first, a self that is aware, and second, a self that is unaware. The unaware self can acquire a body, while the aware self can relinquish the body. It is like an unfired clay vessel: after it has been fired, it loses its former color, and that [color] never arises again. The afflictions of a wise person are likewise: once eliminated, they never arise again.”

The Buddha said, “Good man! Regarding the awareness of which you speak, is it wisdom that is aware, or the self that is aware? If wisdom is capable of awareness, why do you say that the self is aware? If the self is capable of awareness, why must it ultimately employ wisdom as a means?

“If you think that the self becomes aware by relying upon wisdom, that is [just as unreasonable] as the already refuted analogy of the [sumanā] flower [that burned down a village].

“Good man! It is like a thorn whose inherent nature is to pierce; one cannot say that the stem grasps the thorn and uses it to pierce. Wisdom is likewise: [the inherent nature of] wisdom is itself capable of awareness, so why say that the self uses wisdom in order to know?

“Good man! According to your doctrine, when the self attains liberation, is it the unaware self that is liberated, or the aware self that is liberated? If the unaware self is liberated, you should know that it still possesses all the afflictions. If the aware self is liberated, you should know that it already possesses the five sense-consciousnesses and the faculties. Why is this? Because apart from the faculties there is no separate awareness. If it possesses all the faculties, how can it be called liberated? And if you say that the nature of this self is pure and apart from the five faculties, why do you say that [this self] pervades and exists throughout all five sensory domains? Moreover, for what causal reason does one cultivate wholesome dharmas for the sake of liberation?

“Good man! It is like someone wishing to pull a thorn out of empty space—[a truly unreasonable undertaking, for where would there be a thorn to remove?]. You are likewise. If the self is pure, why speak of eliminating afflictions? If you think that liberation is attained without causes and conditions, why are all sentient beings not liberated?”

Seni said, “Gautama! If there is no self, then [what subject] is able to recollect [things that have passed]?”

The Buddha asked, “Seni! If there is a self, for what reason do [people] also [sometimes] forget [past events]? Good man! If that [capacity for] recollection is the self, then for what causal reason do [people] remember evil things, [sometimes] remember what they do not wish to remember, and [sometimes] fail to remember what they wish to remember?”

Seni again said, “Gautama! If there is no self, then [what subject] sees, hears, and knows?”

The Buddha said, “Good man! Internally there are the six faculties, and externally there are the six sense objects. Through the conjunction of the internal and external, the six kinds of consciousness arise. These six consciousnesses receive [different] names according to the causes and conditions [of each consciousness].

“Good man! It is like fire, which is of only one [kind], yet when it burns wood it is called a wood fire; when it burns dry grass, it is called a dry-grass fire; when it burns chaff, it is called a chaff fire; and when it burns dried cow dung, it is called a cow-dung fire. The consciousnesses of sentient beings are likewise. Because of [the factors of] the eye, form, light, and the intention to see, it is called eye-consciousness.

“Good man! This eye-consciousness does not reside in the eye, nor does it reside in form, in light, or even in the intention to see. Only through the conjunction of all four [aforementioned] factors does eye-consciousness arise. The same applies through to mind-consciousness. If it arises from the conjunction of causes and conditions, a wise person should not say, ‘Seeing is the self,’... through to, ‘Touching is the self.’

“Good man! Therefore, I say that all dharmas, from eye-consciousness through to mind-consciousness, are like magical illusions. Why are they like magical illusions? Because formerly they did not exist but now come into existence, and after coming into existence they return to nonexistence.

“Good man! It is like combining butter, flour, sugar, ginger, pepper, pippalī, grapes, walnuts, pomegranates, and quince; together they are called the Joyful Medicinal Pill. Apart from this combination, there is no Joyful Medicinal Pill. The six internal faculties [in conjunction] with the six external sense objects are called a sentient being, a self, another person, a spirit-consciousness, and so forth. Apart from the six internal faculties and the six external sense objects, there are never any separate [entities called] a sentient being, a self, another person, a spirit-consciousness, and so forth.”

Seni said, “Gautama! If there is no self, why is it said: ‘I see, I hear, I suffer, I am happy, I worry, I rejoice,’ and so forth?”

The Buddha said, “Good man! If, because [people] say, ‘I see, I hear,’ and so forth, you conclude that a self exists, then for what reason do people in the world also say, ‘The wrongs you committed were not seen or heard by me’?

“Good man! It is like the four divisions of an army coming together to form an armed force. Although those four divisions are not one, collectively one still says, ‘Our army is mighty,’ ‘Our army has defeated the enemy,’ and so forth. That which is formed [through the conjunction] of the six internal faculties and six external sense objects is likewise. Although it is not a single [entity], one may still say, ‘I see, I hear, I suffer, I am happy, I worry, I rejoice,’ and so forth.”

Seni said, “Gautama! According to what you have just said, the six internal faculties conjoined with the six external sense objects [are called the self]; then what subject produces the sounds of speech that say, ‘I act, I experience,’ and so forth?”

The Buddha said, “Seni! Through the causes and conditions of ignorance, craving, and so forth, karma arises; through karma, existence arises; and through existence, the innumerable states of mind [that is, mental factors] arise. From these mental factors arise all manner of thoughts and deluded conceptions. These thoughts and deluded conceptions set the currents of air [within the body] in motion; following the mind, the [moving] air makes contact with the throat, tongue, teeth, and lips, [thereby producing corresponding sounds]. Because sentient beings entertain inverted conceptions, [when they hear] the sounds produced, they immediately say that [these are the words]: ‘I act, I experience, I see, I hear,’ and so forth.

“Good man! It is like a small bell attached to the top of a banner, which produces sound due to the causal condition of wind. When the wind is strong, the sound is loud; when the wind is gentle, the sound is soft. In truth, there is no one who produces that sound.

“Good man! It is like red-hot iron placed in water, which immediately produces many kinds of sounds. In truth, no one produces any of those sounds.

“Good man! Ordinary beings are unable to examine and discern matters in this way, and so they say that there are an ‘I’ and ‘what belongs to me,’ that there is a self that acts and a self that experiences...”

Senika then asked: “As Gautama says that there is no self and nothing belonging to a self, for what reason do you then speak of permanence, bliss, self, and purity?”

The Buddha said: “Good man! I do not say that the six internal faculties, the six external sense objects, and the six consciousnesses are permanence, bliss, self, and purity. Rather, I teach that extinguishing the six consciousnesses produced through the conjunction of the six internal faculties with the six external sense objects is called permanence. Because it is permanent, it is called self. Because there are permanence and self, it is called bliss. Because there are permanence, self, and bliss, it is called purity.

“Good man! Sentient beings become weary of suffering, eliminate the cause of that suffering, and freely depart from it; this is called non-self. For this reason, I now teach the truth of permanence, bliss, self, and purity.”

Senika said: “World-Honored One! May the One of Great Compassion teach me. What must I now do to attain such permanence, bliss, self, and purity?”

The Buddha said: “Good man! Since time immemorial, all people in the world have always possessed great arrogance in abundance. They constantly increase that arrogance and also create the causes of arrogance and arrogant karma. Therefore, they now undergo the karmic consequences of arrogance and cannot depart from all afflictions to attain permanence, bliss, self, and purity. Thus, sentient beings who wish to depart from all afflictions must first constantly abandon arrogance.”

Senika said to the Buddha: “World-Honored One! It is indeed so, indeed so! The Buddha’s teaching is not false! Formerly, I truly had great arrogance. Because of that arrogance, I dared to address the Tathagata disrespectfully by the surname Gautama! Now that I have abandoned that great arrogance, I sincerely entreat you to let me hear the true Dharma. May the Tathagata instruct me as to what I must do to attain permanence, bliss, self, and purity.”

The Buddha said: “Good man! Listen carefully, listen carefully! I shall distinguish and explain this for you.

“Good man! If one is able to perceive that all dharmas are neither self, nor other, nor sentient being, one immediately departs from all those dharmas.”

Senika said: “World-Honored One! I now clearly understand and have attained right view in accordance with the Dharma.”

The Buddha asked: “Good man! Why do you say that you clearly understand and have attained right view in accordance with the Dharma?”

Senika replied: “World-Honored One! What is called form is neither self, nor other, nor sentient being; and so it is also with consciousness. By contemplating in this way, I have attained right view in accordance with the Dharma.

“World-Honored One! I now earnestly wish to leave the household life and cultivate the Way. I beg the Buddha to permit me.”

The Buddha said: “Welcome, bhikshu!”

As soon as the Buddha had spoken these words, Senika immediately fulfilled the pure holy life and attained the sacred fruit of arhatship.

Among the assembly of non-Buddhist practitioners, there was another brahmin of the Kasyapa clan who asked: “Gautama! Is this body identical with life, or are body and life different?”

The Tathagata remained silent. The brahmin asked a second and then a third time, but the Buddha still remained silent.

The brahmin Kasyapa then said: “Gautama! When a person has relinquished the body of this life but has not yet acquired the body of the next life, during that intermediate period are body and life not different? If they are different, why does Gautama not say that they are different, but remain silent without answering?”

The Buddha said: “Good man! I have taught that both body and life arise from causes and conditions, and not without causes and conditions. Just as with body and life, so too do all dharmas arise from causes and conditions.”

The brahmin said: “Gautama! I see in the world certain dharmas that do not arise from causes and conditions.”

The Buddha asked: “Brahmin! What do you see that causes you to say there are dharmas in the world that do not arise from causes and conditions?”

The brahmin replied: “I see a fierce fire burning trees, mountains, and forests, while the wind blows sparks from the fire and causes them to fall elsewhere. Does this not occur without causes and conditions?”

The Buddha said: “Good man! I say that this fire also arises from a cause and does not arise without a cause.”

The brahmin said: “Gautama! When those sparks fly away, they do not depend upon charcoal or firewood. Why, then, do you say that they depend upon causes and conditions?”

The Buddha said: “Good man! Although there is no charcoal or firewood there, they fly away because of the wind. Because the wind serves as a cause and condition, sparks continue to fly out from the fire without ceasing.”

The brahmin asked: “Gautama! Suppose a person has relinquished the body of this life but has not yet acquired the body of the next life. What serves as the cause and condition for that person’s life during the intermediate period?”

The Buddha said: “Brahmin! Ignorance and craving are its causes and conditions. Because ignorance and craving serve as causes and conditions, life is sustained.

“Good man! Due to causes and conditions, there are times when the body is identical with life and life is identical with the body; and due to causes and conditions, there are times when the body differs from life. A wise person should not assert one-sidedly that the body differs from life.”

The brahmin said: “World-Honored One! Please distinguish and explain this for me, so that I may clearly comprehend cause and effect.”

The Buddha said: “Brahmin! The cause is the five skandhas, and the effect is also the five skandhas. If sentient beings do not kindle a fire, there can be no smoke.”

The brahmin said: “World-Honored One! I now recognize it; I now clearly understand it.”

The Buddha asked: “Good man! How do you recognize it? How do you clearly understand it?”

The brahmin replied: “World-Honored One! The fire is the afflictions, which can burn throughout the realms of hell beings, hungry ghosts, animals, gods, and humans. The smoke is the karmic result of the afflictions. Because it is impermanent, impure, vile, defiled, and repugnant, it is called smoke. If sentient beings do not create afflictions, they certainly will not experience the karmic results of afflictions. Therefore, the Tathagata says: ‘If no fire is kindled, there can be no smoke.’

“World-Honored One! I have attained right view and understanding. May the Buddha, in his compassionate mercy, permit me to leave the household life.”

At that time, the World-Honored One said to Kaundinya: “Accept this brahmin and allow him to leave the household life and receive the precepts.”

Kaundinya obeyed the Buddha’s instruction and immediately convened the Sangha to accept the brahmin of the Kasyapa clan, allowing him to leave the household life and receive full ordination. After five days, the brahmin Kasyapa attained the sacred fruit of arhatship.

Among the assembly of non-Buddhist practitioners, there was another brahmin named Purna who asked: “Gautama! Is it because you see the world as a permanently abiding dharma that you call it permanent? Is such a proposition true or false? Is the world permanent or impermanent? Is it both permanent and impermanent? Is it neither permanent nor impermanent? Is it finite or infinite? Is it both finite and infinite? Is it neither finite nor infinite? Is this body identical with life, or are body and life different? After the Tathagata’s nirvana, does he pass away or does he not pass away? Does he both pass away and not pass away? Or does he neither pass away nor not pass away?”

The Buddha said: “Punna! I do not say that [the proposition] ‘the world is eternal’ is false or true. [Nor do I say that the world is] impermanent; both eternal and impermanent; neither eternal nor impermanent; finite or infinite; both finite and infinite; neither finite nor infinite; that this body is identical with the life principle or that the body and life principle are different; that after the Tathagata’s passing he exists, or does not exist; both exists and does not exist; or neither exists nor does not exist.”

Punna again asked: “Gautama! What errors and dangers do you now perceive that you do not speak of such matters?”

The Buddha said: “Punna! Suppose someone were to say, ‘The world is eternal,’ and regard this alone as true and everything else as false. This is called a [fixed] view. [Because of this fixed view,] what that person sees and knows is called conduct based on views; it is called the karma created by views; it is called attachment to views; it is called bondage through views; it is called the suffering caused by views; it is called clinging to views; it is called the fear caused by views; it is called the fever of views; and it is called entanglement in the bonds of views.

“Punna! Ordinary beings, tightly bound by such [fixed] views, cannot escape birth, aging, sickness, and death. They revolve through the six realms and undergo immeasurable suffering.

“The same applies even to [the fixed view that ‘after the Tathagata’s passing, he] neither exists nor does not exist.’

“Punna! Because I perceive such errors and dangers in [fixed] views, I do not become attached to them, nor do I teach [such things] to others.”

Punna again asked: “Gautama! If, having perceived such errors and dangers, [you] neither become attached to them nor teach [such things to others], then what does Gautama now see and know, to what does he become attached, and what does he teach?”

The Buddha said: “Good man! Attachment to what is seen and known is a dharma of samsara. The Tathagata has transcended the dharmas of samsara and therefore has no attachment.

“Good man! The Tathagata is one who can see and know clearly and can teach, without attachment.”

Punna again asked: “Gautama! What does it mean to be able to see and know clearly? What does it mean to be able to teach?”

The Buddha said: “Good man! I can clearly see [the truths of] suffering, the cause of suffering, [that is, its accumulation], the complete cessation of the causes of suffering, [that is, cessation], and the path leading to the cessation of suffering, [that is, the path]; and I can distinguish and expound these Four Truths.

“Because I see clearly in this way, I can completely abandon all [attachment to] views, all craving, all outflows [within samsara], and all arrogance. Therefore, I fully possess the pure holy life, the unsurpassed peace and tranquility, and have attained the eternal [Dharma] body. This [Dharma] body belongs neither to the east, west, south, nor north.”

Punna again asked: “Gautama, for what reason does that eternal [Dharma] body belong neither to the east, west, south, nor north?”

The Buddha said: “Good man! I shall now ask you a question; answer as you see fit. Good man, what do you think? If a great fire were kindled before you, while it was burning would you know that it was burning?”

Punna replied: “Gautama, I would know it.”

The Buddha asked: “When that fire was extinguished, would you know that it was extinguished?”

Punna replied: “Gautama, I would know it.”

The Buddha asked: “If someone were to ask you, ‘When the fire before you was kindled, where did it come from, and when it was extinguished, where did it go?’ how would you reply?”

Punna replied: “Gautama, I would answer: ‘When that fire arose, it depended upon the [convergence of] conditions. When the preceding conditions were exhausted and new conditions had not yet arrived, the fire necessarily went out.’”

The Buddha said: “If you were then asked in which direction the fire went after it was extinguished, how would you reply?”

Punna replied: “Gautama, I would answer: ‘Because the conditions for that fire were exhausted, it necessarily went out; it did not go in any direction at all.’”

The Buddha said: “Good man! The Tathagata is likewise. Impermanent form, through impermanent consciousness, burns because of craving. This ‘burning’ is precisely the assumption of bodies within the twenty-five realms of existence. Therefore, while the fire is burning, one may say that it is in the east, west, south, or north. When present craving ceases, the karmic results within the twenty-five realms of existence no longer burn. Because that fire no longer burns, it cannot be said to be in the east, west, south, or north.

“Good man! The Tathagata has extinguished impermanent form, through impermanent consciousness; therefore, the Tathagata’s body is eternal. Since the Tathagata’s body is eternal, it cannot be said to be in the east, west, south, or north.”

Punna said: “World-Honored One! I would now like to offer a parable. May the World-Honored One deign to hear it.”

The Buddha said: “Excellent, excellent! Speak as you see fit.”

Punna said: “World-Honored One! Suppose that outside a large village there is a grove of sala trees. Within that grove stands a great tree that arose before the entire grove and has reached one hundred years of age. The keeper of the grove regularly waters it and tends it in accordance with the seasons. That tree [gradually] grows old and decays; its bark, branches, and leaves all fall away, leaving only its one true [heartwood].

“World-Honored One! The Tathagata is likewise: all that was old and worn has been completely cast away, leaving only the one true Dharma.

“World-Honored One! I now earnestly wish to renounce the household life and cultivate the Right Path.”

The Buddha immediately called to him: “Excellent! Come here, bhiksu!”

As soon as the Buddha had spoken these words, Punna immediately [became one who had] renounced the household life, eradicated all afflictions, and attained the fruit of arhatship.

There was also a brahmin named Purity, who asked: “Gautama! Because all sentient beings fail to understand what dharma do they hold that the world is eternal, or impermanent, or both eternal and impermanent, or neither eternal nor impermanent... up to [holding that after the Tathagata’s passing, he] neither exists nor does not exist?”

The Buddha said: “Good man! [All sentient beings] fail to understand form... up to failing to understand consciousness. Therefore, they hold that the world is eternal... up to [holding that after the Tathagata’s passing, he] neither exists nor does not exist.”

The brahmin again asked: “Gautama! Through understanding what dharma do sentient beings not hold that the world is eternal... up to [not holding that after the Tathagata’s passing, he] neither exists nor does not exist?”

The Buddha said: “Good man! Through understanding form... up to understanding consciousness, sentient beings do not hold that the world is eternal... up to [not holding that after the Tathagata’s passing, he] neither exists nor does not exist.”

The brahmin said, “World-Honored One! I pray that you distinguish and expound for me the permanence and impermanence of the world.”

The Buddha said, “Good man! If a person relinquishes all past karma and creates no new karma, that person can clearly know permanence and impermanence.”

The brahmin [Pure] said, “World-Honored One! I have discerned it; I have clearly understood.”

The Buddha asked, “Good man! How have you discerned it? How have you clearly understood?”

The brahmin said, “World-Honored One! What is called ‘past’ is ignorance and craving; what is called ‘new’ is [clinging] and [continued] existence. If a person abandons ignorance and craving and does not create [the karma of clinging] and [continued] existence, that person truly and clearly knows permanence and impermanence.

“World-Honored One! I have now attained the pure view that accords with the true Dharma. I pray to take refuge in the Three Jewels, and I beseech the Tathagata to permit me to leave the household life.”

The Buddha told Kauṇḍinya, “Have this brahmin leave the household life and receive the precepts.”

Thereupon, Kauṇḍinya obeyed the Buddha’s instruction and immediately brought the brahmin Pure before the Sangha, where the formal act of the Sangha was performed to admit him into the monastic life. Fifteen days later, the brahmin Pure completely eradicated the afflictions and attained the fruit of arhatship.